oh no.....

[Helkasir]

just take a look at the poster farthest to the bottom...<A HREF="http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_features_banners.html" TARGET=_blank>Arwen, Eowyn,Aragorn</A>

[Princess of Mirkwood]

I see a cat fight in the very near future!<P>

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

You beat me to it Princess. I was going to say exactly the same thing. It's sad they can't just stick to what JRRT wrote. I will say that FoTR-movie version was closer than I thought it would be. Maybe TTT-movie version will surprise me too.

[Elenna]

I hope so. Maybe they're just promoting a "love triangle" to get those gutter-minds into the theaters, in hopes that they will leave Tolkienophiles.<P>At least, I hope so. If there's a catfight, I'll start hitting people.

[Diamond18]

It's just marketing. I wouldn't worry about it. Marketing is so stupid. Always has been...always will be.

[Helkasir]

^unfortunately, that works for everything but beer commercials.....

[Mlo]

Hehehe, I saw it recently, and showed it to my friend, now we are both terrified that TTT will become some kind of 'love triangle drama' Hehehe... <BR>Tagline (not real, just made it up ): Who will have the heart of the King? <BR>Doom is near...

[Diamond18]

Or how about this tagline: "Two women, one Ring...who will this handsome bachelor choose to be his bride? Tune in on December 18th to find out."<P><I>*laughs insanely while smashing television screen*</I><p>[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

<retching noise> That Bachelor show is an example of all that is wrong with television. If we went to an ABC board meeting we would no doubt find Balrog's, Sauron, and Morgoth himself sitting at the head of the table. <P><gives TV over to Diamond18 for smashing><P>"Arwen or Eowyn....who will be voted off ME next?"

[GreyIstar]

Is it just me or doesn't Eowyn fall in love with Aragorn in the book?<P>Next the the Saruman poster (Grima is creepy looking) it is the best looking one.<p>[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: GreyIstar ]

[Arwen Imladris]

It's O.K., there is one with Frodo really big in the centre. And at least in the "love triangle" Aragorn is the biggest and in front. Hey, I'm trying to look on the positive side today!

[Elenna]

But in the book, there is no love triangle. There is a healthy, long term, faithful relationship and an unrequited crush.<P>I'm seriously going to start hitting people if Aragorn even checks Eowyn out. Then I'll set some stuff on fire. Like popcorn, and the hair of the annoying person next to me.

[Elven Mistress]

Let's just hope the writers and/or P.J. didn't go TOOO far and have Aragorn... <coughs nervously> "cheat" on Arwen...<P>Someone please tell me if they know i'm wrong...i haven't looked too much into TTT and i'm praying i'm wrong...

[GreyIstar]

My lord you people are way too sensative. You see something and you blow it way out of proportion.<P>He is a guy, of course Aragorn might take a small "check Eowyn out" Actually it would make him more human than mythic hero. <P>I have yet to see anything in any trailer or picture that leads me to beleive he is recipricating any of Eowyn's feelings. All I see is a poster with Aragorn sword drawn and half looking like he is about to turn around and hew off both those girls heads.

[*Varda*]

Guys, it is JUST a movie. You always have the books, the real version.<P>I'll like the movie anyway, so I'm not too bothered myself. I just think you're all jumping to stupid conclusions from one poster.

[Helkasir]

I wouldn't mind it if it was in the books themselves. In the end, All it does is give me something to do, so it's fine by me,

[Cúdae]

Hmm... interesting picture. I once took a tiny little course in advertising, so I am going to "enlighten" you with a little of my knowledge. In this picture, notice that Arwen is closer (larger in the picture) than Eowyn. This sends the viewer's subconscious mind the message that Eowyn is not going to "get" Aragorn. Think about it, it does make sense. Go look at the poster as if you have never even heard of Eowyn and Arwen and see which one you think has more impact on Aragorn's life.

[Arwen1858]

Good point, Cúdae! I happen to be of the few people who actually like the poster!! As long as Eowyn doesn't get <I>too</I> close to Aragorn, and he doesn't do anything he shouldn't.... If they have him the least bit interested in her, I will be soooo mad at PJ!! <BR>Arwen

[Lush]

Oh NO!!!! It's a POSTER!!! It features Aragorn, Arwen, and Eowyn!!! OMIGOD!!! PJ is most definitely going to pervert Tolkien's masterpiece with a NASTY LOVE TRIANGLE!!! Let's all give ourselves a giant nosebleed over it!!! And while we're at it, let's note the Freudian symbolism of the sword, and FREAK OUT about the fact that Arwen appears to be wearing MAKE-UP!!! I can't TAKE IT ANYMORE! Somebody call an ambulance! Call the White House! Let's all freak out together about this horrible conspiracy to destroy our favorite work of literature!!!<P> <P>Seriously guys, I think some of us could be just a tad more positive.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I honestly think that Eowyn's crush on Aragorn in the book is such an unimportant part and I really don't care about it. Why are they making a poster about it? Look, I don't care when movies alter the story. Hey, I got over the lack of Glorfindel didn't I? But I really think the whole Eowyn-Aragorn relationship was really unimportant and should not be put forward as a major theme.

[Bill Ferny]

I like that poster! Hey, they are both pretty good looking women. I just wish that Viggo wasn't taking up so much space!<P>I might be wrong, but there is a love triangle in Tolkien's LotRs. Aragorn remained faithful to Arwen, and as it has been said above, there is nothing to indicate that he won't in the movie.

[Mlo]

PJ will probably not make the WHOLE movie into a love triangle thingy, but Eowyn's crush on Aragorn will definitalay (sp?) be larger. I mean, it will be more important. But what many of you have already said, it's only a movie, the books are still there. But the first impression you get from this poster, IS a love triangle drama, atleast it has that effect on me... But PJ respects Tolkiens works as much as we do (i suppose) so he probably wont make it a love triangle thingy...<BR>Hehehe, but it's still fun making up taglines... hehehe... ok, it's probably only I who have that opinion, I have such a weird taste of humor...

[Diamond18]

I had a lot of fun making up my tagline. Hey, I was laughing insanely, wasn't I? I'm not terribly worried about the movie. I think the only reason to get upset is because we liked the first movie and really want the second one to live up to it. We'll still have the books, of course, but I for one want the movies to be good, too, so that I can enjoy them.<P>Like I said before....it's marketing, and that's the way marketing is. Arwen's part in FotR was really quite small, but they used her...what, three?....scenes in the adverts so that you thought she was the star. It's the same thing for TTT.

[GreyIstar]

I watched the Count of Monte Cristo, and in the special features it interviewed the screenwriter and he said:<P>"Its not exactly like the book. If you want exactly like the book then read the book. Its a good book but its not a movie."<P>And PJ is staying as true to the book as he can and still make a great movie.

[Helkasir]

It is a horrible poster though. The should have one with Aragorn drenched form the rain cutting off an orcs head. Love doesn't make a good story, in the end. I'd much rather have Aragorn be protrayed as a Rambo than a Leo Decraprio.

[Arwen Melian]

Ha.. but then how would the women love him..just kidding.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That's true. Women don't like big masculine specimens dripping with testostorone. Uh...<P>But yeah, a poster of Aragorn cutting off an Orc's head would be SO COOL! Although I'd prefer one of an Oliphaunt rampaging through the woods. That would be sweet.

[Fleance Stoneycroft]

I agree with all of you who would hate to see a love triangle! I think Peter Jackson will turn the whole story into a mess the longer the journey goes on... Did you know that there will be a scene where Grima tells Eowyn that he loves her? That is so ridiculous! It does not fit to Grima, and it makes him so...kind, if you know how I mean it. I am not looking forward to seeing this all.<BR>(especially because I like Grima Wormtongue)<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/the_dark_wizard_of_orthanc/sauron.html" TARGET=_blank>Horror and LotR</A>

[GreyIstar]

THen don't watch it Fleance.

[Mlo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Did you know that there will be a scene where Grima tells Eowyn that he loves her? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ok, PJ can't possibly be so stupid. Must be a false rumour or something, it can't be true. Grima would never say so, he's to, evil... I get what you mean <B>Fleance</B>... but I'm still looking forward to see TTT<p>[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mlo ]

[Lush]

Are you guys nuts? Have you smoked some bad pipeweed? Plenty of evil people use the word "love." Actually, a decent number of them use the word "love" on a regular basis.<p>[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Lush ]

[Diamond18]

I know! Gosh, wake up, Gríma was a liar. He learned his art from Saruman, the smooth talker.<P>Case in point: Gandalf to Eomer in "The Houses of Healing"<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "Think you that Wormtounge had poison only for Théoden's ears?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Mlo]

FYI Lush, No, I havent been smoking pipeweed, but I have been eating large amounts of candy today, it's much better than pipeweed to help you calm down before a test. Also very good for the after-test stress, ok enough about test-stress(hihi, it rhymes, hihihi)...<P>I know that Grima was a liar! I'm not a complete idiot , or maybe I am... anyway, the thought of Grima just saying that he loves Eowyn is weird. But the fact that he actually did desire Eowyn makes the whole thing, hmm, weirder... ok, this isn't making any sense, it did in my head, but not on the computer... <BR>But, why, oh why, would he even say so, even if it was a lie?

[Diamond18]

Hmmmm, to put it delicately, Gríma would be just using the words as a way to get jiggy with Éowyn. (Which would make him the real idiot in all of this.) We all know Éowyn would never buy it, but maybe he was just using all the tactics he could think of. He knew she was a bit desperate for love (I mean, see how fast she fell for Aragorn who wasn't even trying) so...I mean, guys use that pick-up line all the time, and it works on weak women. He would just be forgetting that Éowyn isn't weak.<P>I know he doesn't actually say it in the book, but of course in the book we never witness a tête-à-tête between them. So if PJ wants to put one in (and I don't think it's a bad idea) he has to imagine up lines for them. Just like the scenes in which Saruman is talking to his Orcs.<P>Now, how he says it and in what context (if the rumor is true, that is) will determine how believable it is with his character.

[Mlo]

Hmm... I think that it sounds like it's mostly Grima who is a little desperate...<p>[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Mlo ]

[Melephelwen]

I must admit it sounds a bit weird, that Wormtongue would say that... but hey, you all remember Arwen's line... "If youi want him,". Btw, I once read in an interview that to get the movie as interesting as possible, allthough there were only few women, they blew all of their roles as big as they could. (Maybe not Galadriel yet, but it'll come. ) I really don't mind about love triangles - first of all, if Aragorn did do anything similar to cheating on Arwen, it wouldn't be in the LotR-spirit, and as long at it doesn't ruin the rest of the movie, it can't hurt. The romance-loving (fe)males need entertainment as well.<BR>I'd better stop now, before I totally stop making sence. My Englsih isn't as good as I could wish.

[Rose Cotton]

Well, I could see some scence in Grima telling Eowyn he loves her. But not for love's sake. <P>Think of what Grima has been set to acomplish. Saruman wants Rohan. If Grima get's Eowyn to marry him (EWWWWW!) Saruman could take over Rohan without war. Theoden already thinks Eomer (who would be his heir right?) is a traitor because of Grima's lies. So when Theoden dies (probably help along by some poisons carfully put in place by Grima) Wormtonge would rule Rohan being married to Eowyn. Once he has Rohan he could let Saruman take over.<P>Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this make scence? This never happened in the books. And Tolkien never had Grima express any love to Eowyn but that doesn't mean that if PJ puts it in it's bad.<P>As for the love triangle thing. I'm not too worried about it. I don't think PJ would sink that low. And someone mentioned that Eowyn's love didn't seem like a big part of the story. Well what I think is that what we see in the LOTR movies is PJ's perspective on the books. This includes the fact that he might think Eowyn's love is an important part. He is a fan of the books too you know.

[Diamond18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> This never happened in the books. And Tolkien never had Gríma express any love to Eowyn but that doesn't mean that if PJ puts it in it's bad. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tolkien indicates that Gríma lusted after Éowyn. Consider this from "The King of the Golden Hall."<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gandalf: "...How long is it since Saruman bought you? What was the promised price? When all the men were dead, you were to pick your share of the treasure, and take the woman you desire? Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps."<P>Éomer grasped his sword. "That I knew already," he muttered. "For that reason I would have slain him before, forgetting the law of the hall." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So why he of course did not love her in the true sense of the word, it was a word he might have used to describe it. This passage makes it sound like he was never as obvious as to say "I love you", but movies are generally more obvious than books.<P>And yet, we still don't know if this is really in the movie. It may very well be purely a rumor, and not worth all this talk. Oh well.

[Fleance Stoneycroft]

At first thank you to Grey Istar for this "very" friendly reply. Next thing: Even if it was in the books that Grima looked at Eowyn in dark desire, I think it should not be in the films. It just does not fit!<BR><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/the_dark_wizard_of_orthanc/sauron.html" TARGET=_blank>Horror and LotR</A>

[the mortal elf]

*Varda* and Lush: You both have points, we are blowing the poster thing out of proportion. But if we didn't critisize PJ for every single change he makes, where would be the fun in this section of the forum? We need something to complain about, possibily just to show off how much we know and how much we think PJ doesn't know. We're only human

[Diamond18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Even if it was in the books that Grima looked at Eowyn in dark desire, I think it should not be in the films. It just does not fit! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmmmm...last time I checked, anything that is in the book, fits. But that may just be my opinion...

[Bill Ferny]

Maybe this kind of speculation is better suited in “The Books” section, but to me there seems to be a parallel between Gríma and Éowyn.<P>The line quoted by Diamond18 could be a single throw away line, but I lean more toward it being a line that reveals something important about Gríma’s psychology. He’s not an orc, he is capable of making moral choice. So something in his psyche makes it easier for Saruman to twist him to his will. Throughout the story Gríma is portrayed as weak, but also as a co-dependent. His co-dependency probably hinges on his physical shortcomings. He needs recognition, attention, and acceptance, but lives among a warrior people. He can not stand on his own physically or mentally among these people. He is, therefore, jealous, not hateful, of the people of Rohan. Part of him, the surface part, might desire Éowyn because he wants to get his rocks off, but deeper, I think, he wants to be loved in order to find acceptance from the people that which he is so intensely jealous. If Saruman can give him the means to force this love and acceptance, then so be it, a man like him will take it anyway he can get it.<P>As I pointed out on Lush’s parallel thread in “The Books”, Éowyn desires not to love, but to be loved by Aragorn in order to capture for herself and her people the greatness embodied by Aragorn. In a way she is co-dependent as well, and definitely jealous of those who ride to battle. She doesn’t like her appointed duties, and sees these duties as the result of her gender. She perceives her gender as a weakness. Unlike Gríma, though, she is not weak, but strong, noble and great. She already possesses the qualities that Aragorn embodies, and Faramir helps her to see this. She comes to realize that she doesn’t need the love of Aragorn, or any man for that matter, to be noble.<P>In the end Gríma realizes that he has been betrayed and forsook by Saruman. Saruman was never his friend; Saruman never accepted him or cared about him. Gríma realized that Saruman had used him, twisted him, and made him into a cannibalistic animal (which was one thing that he, himself, said he never wanted to be). I pity Wormtongue more than hate him. Think of it this way: what if Gandalf, and not Saruman, had gotten a hold of Gríma in the beginning?

[Helkasir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Hmmmm...last time I checked, anything that is in the book, fits. But that may just be my opinion...<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>actually, i'd say that it's a fact. <P>IF and when tolkien has a sex scene in the books, or has a love triangle, the love triangle should go in, as well as a full frontal nudity scene if sex is involved as well. but it wasn't in the books, PJ just seems to be making too big a deal of the minor characters.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, Tolkien does have a scene with nudity in the book - should we be disappointed or thankful that PJ didn't include it in the movie? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Clothes are but little loss, if you escape from drowning. Be glad, my merry friends, and let the warm sunlight heat now heart and limb! Cast off these cold rags! Run naked on the grass, while Tom goes a'hunting! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Ainalondwen]

After studying Media at school, then promptly leaving school, all I can say is: It's a picture, made to capture imagination. To entice people to go and see what the outcome is.<P>My guess - a lot of people will go to see the film to see what happens between Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn. I believe PJ won't take a course TOO far from the books. Chill.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Why would the casual fan go to the cinema to see what happens between Aragorn, Eowyn and Arwen? The casual fan is going to see this film for the adventure and the battles.<P>And Frodo spends half the book naked (insert possible hyperbole), get over it.

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

I agree with Ainalondwen. It's just a ploy to get more people to go to the movie. PJ has a bottom line to attend to as well as his responsibility to faithfully represent Tolkien's work. It is only smart business to try to make the movie appeal to as broad an audience as possible. My first thought when I found out the LoTR was being made into movies was "Oh no, what kind of mess are they going to make?", but I was pleasantly wrong. Maybe we all ought to have a little more faith in PJ, at least until he shows otherwise. He did a pretty good job with the first one didn't he?

[Helkasir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Well, Tolkien does have a scene with nudity in the book - should we be disappointed or thankful that PJ didn't include it in the movie? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd say disappointed, because I wanted to see tom and such. even if the are... male hobbits...

[Mlo]

Awww... poor old Tom... but I think that the people who havent read LotR would be quite annoyed, and some of the LotR fans I know really hate poor Tom, so maybe it was for the best that he wasn't in the movie.....<BR>But I'm a little sad they didn't put the Barrowdowns in the movie. That would give a better explanation to how the hobbits got their swords, than just Aragorn giving them...<p>[ November 11, 2002: Message edited by: Mlo ]

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

I think all of us would liked to have seen everything Tolkien wrote in the FoTR accurately reproduced in the movie. The whole scene with Old Man Willow and the Barrow Wights would have been good stuff. The movie was already three hours long, PJ had to make some hard decisions on what to edit. Plus imagine the questions the casual fan would have after listening to Tom Bombadil. We have whole threads and essays here in the Downs about that guy, casual fans would have had a hard time making heads or tails out of him.

[TolkienGurl]

I'm sorry, but I really don't want to see naked Hobbits (Eeew!), even though I am well aware that it was in the books: I just read that part not too long ago (I am rereading LOTR before TTT comes out). That's just my personal preference.<P><BR> <p>[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: TolkienGurl ]