Accent problem

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Now this may be a little thing, but accents were something they made a big deal of in all the "Making of-" things I've seen. Here are my quibbles:<BR>* Boromir and Faramir are brothers, yet Boromir is broad Yorkshire, while Faramir would feel more at home in, say, Kent.<BR>* Merry is a "Posh" Hobbit, like Bilbo and Frodo, and as such shouldn't he have a plain English, rather than West-Country-Sam accent?<BR>* Hama and Gamling have New Zealand accents, which differs to every other Rohirrim character, even the woman and her kids.<P>Perhaps it's just me (Accents really intrigue me) but has anyone else noticed? Does anyone else care?????<p>[ April 30, 2003: Message edited by: Lyra Greenleaf ]

[The Only Real Estel]

Can't say that I noticed...

[Melephelwen]

Admitted, I didn't notice 'til now, but when you say so, I <I>do</I> think Merry might sound a bit too ... that expression you used. Hmm... I can't think of any reasons for that... Maybe a Buckland-accent? OR just a blooper... <BR>As for Faramir and Boromir, (I'm not good at accents, so I might say something that's terribly wrong along the way) I think you're right there as well. I have a slight memory, that they talk different... Could it be because Denethor liked Boromir better, and talked more with him, while Faramir was (to a degree) left with Gondorian soldiers? That shouldn't make such a difference as you say it is, though... I really don't know!

[Ivy Brandybuck]

Another *roblem - hobbiton re*resents england, and PIP comes from the south(Tuckland) so he should have a southern accent, but he has a northern accent.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Yes, Pip the Scottish Hobbit...<P>~Menelien

[Meela]

I noticed accents before, but I never really bothered about them; I'm not fussed, they can't change entirely.<BR>Some are down to character, such as Boromir and Faramir. Thinking about it, I remembered how much Faramir loves the elves and studies them. Then I remember Legolas, who like all the other elves actually, has quite a noble accent. So Faramir, having a more 'noble' accent, reflects his love of nobility and lore and whatnot through his voice. Boromir is more of a 'dodgy geezer' style guy, with a common 'man' accent.<BR>Its the same with the hobbits. Sam has a rustic, country accent, representing a simpler lifestyle (like the rural peasant farmers or something) and Frodo has a posher accent, reflecting his higher upbringing.

[The Only Real Estel]

Well, I think Merry and Pippin's accents are still pretty cool (in real life Merry's accent is awesome!). Also, Frodo spent a lot of time with the elves as well...

[Ainaserkewen]

I always thought it was weird that Pippin had such a different accent from everyone else. I mean, Billy Boyd is Scottish isn't he?<BR>I thought every one would have some kind of english accent.<BR>You know though, I could tell strait away who's accent was real(ex. Ian Mckellen) and who's wasn't(ex. Elijah Wood) <BR>I'm facinated with accents too, living in Canada, I get to hear alot, but I especially like english accents, I love any Europian actually. Anyway, getting off topic.<BR>Another thing I noticed was how every character said the same word differently. I guess it's hard, but really...

[Meela]

Do you count Ian's as real? I know it isn't a different accent entirely (ie. American to English) but it isn't entirely his own. But its close enough, so yeh, maybe it is 'real'.

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

Ian McKellen's accent is pretty weird, really, because he grew up having a rather rough one and then later in his theater days, he refined it to what he has now. 'Swhat I hear, anyway; if you can find the episode of Inside the Actor's Studio where they interview him, you'll get the real stuff on it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Thinking about it, I remembered how much Faramir loves the elves and studies them. Then I remember Legolas, who like all the other elves actually, has quite a noble accent. So Faramir, having a more 'noble' accent, reflects his love of nobility and lore and whatnot through his voice. Boromir is more of a 'dodgy geezer' style guy, with a common 'man' accent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I could be off the mark on this, but that could explain why Aragorn's accent is a little more clean and smooth than most of the other Men we meet in the movies. But I haven't seen TTT since it came out, so I could be way off.

[Sapphire_Flame]

I actually thought that Viggo's accent kept slipping from his Aragorn voice to own voice and back.<P>That's just me though...

[Meela]

He had a weird English/American twang, and occasionally slipped into some weird accent that I couldn't distinguish (outside Moria, when he tells Legolas to "get them up").

[The Only Real Estel]

Viggo talks like he does in the movies...I can swear to that. Obviously Wood's accent was something he worked on. Elijah was origianlly rejected as Frodo because of his weak english accent, so he hired a trainer, refined it, and tried again (you know what happened from there).

[Nyneve]

And Aragorn Really doesn't have an accent, He just Mumbles on interviews!

[Lyra Greenleaf]

Yes Aragorn was another problem I had. He had a childhood in various countries which may explain the fact that he sometimes sounded quite Irish- try "Ride hard, don't look back" in FOTR. Or perhaps it was the strain of trying to sound different to how he really is?<P> Pippin, on the other hand, they did justify. They said that the fact that the Tooks had a "Thain" and that it's pronounced with the double O sounding like shoe rather then in look means that the Tooks are Scottish. Apparantly Billy Boyd started with an English accent, but they changed it!

[Elrond Jr]

No offence to anyone, but have you ever thought that maybe just the actors can't do those accents? Maybe that is their version of an british accent or wuteva. Is it possible that they didn't fine tune their accents 100% perfectly, I mean they are human.

[The Only Real Estel]

I know it, Elrond Jr. It's not that big a deal to me (to be honest, I didn't notice anything wrong with their accents until the people here directed my attention to it ).<BR>

[Susan Delgado]

I say, does it really matter? They are, in fact, not Hobbits, Elves, and Men, but ordinary humans from all over Great Britian and America. Of Course they'll have different accents!

[Meela]

I'm not getting at the accents. I love them all. But it is interesting to analyse them to some extent.

[Frodo Baggins]

Viggo did sound a bit Irish here and there didn't he? I really never noticed until I thought about it. However, they way he pronounces "Legolas" just makes me melt.<P> If you want to talk about american twangs (that is a word right?) take a good listen to Brad Dourif next time you see TTT. A good accent yes but there's a slip there every once in a while.

[Melephelwen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He had a weird English/American twang, and occasionally slipped into some weird accent that I couldn't distinguish (outside Moria, when he tells Legolas to "get them up"). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Just went listening (thank heavens for the dvd-players ) And I think it might be a bit Danish. I hear Danes talking English almost everyday (School, *sigh*) and it could be that. It's not an obvious one, but he <I>does</I> sound a bit like someone I know's accent. Do you think that's a possibility? He is half Danish after all (- and coming to my home town this summer! Unfortunately I'm on holiday that week... )

[The Evenstar]

Yep, I must admit too that I didn't notice the Gamling/Hama accent prob or the Boromir/Faramir one but I have noticed that Sam and Frodo sometimes forget to put on a British accent now and again in soem syllables and sentences. Has anyone else noticed or is it just me?

[Voralphion]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but ordinary humans from all over Great Britian and America <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not all are from Great Britain or America, David Wenham who plays Faramir is Australian which may be the reason his accent is so different from Boromir's

[Lyra Greenleaf]

I guess it might be a bit much to expect him to put on a Yorkshire accent. Not to mention every other Gondorian would have to do the same thing! Maybe they could have got Sean Bean to put on a generic English accent? That would have completely destroyed the only good thing my dad could see in the whole film, but never mind!

[Faramir Fan]

I don't have a problem with little slips in the accents, hey nobody's perfect.<P>My favourite slip is in the Extended Version when Boromir and Aragorn are having a conversation about taking the ring to Minas Tirith. Sean Bean says the word "courage" in an unmistakable Irish accent - I absolutely love it!!!

[dragoneyes]

I always thought Viggo's accent went a bit wayward when Boromir was dying, it was that American 'twang' as you put it.<P>When Sam shouts 'Those wraiths are still out there!' he doesn't sound the same farmer's son. I can forgive him for that though, the only Englishmen I've heard shouting are a handful of teachers and my father and even then it wasn't top of the lungs. Also, when I try shouting in Sam's accent my voice wanders up to the Birmingham area.

[mollecon]

It's probably true that not all the accents* in the movies are stricly correct in terms of the Middle Earth 'universe'. But I just enjoy the variation! <P>*I actually prefer the word 'dialects'. To me, the word 'accent' refers to the language spoken by a non-native (like my English) - while dialects are just various forms of a language, all equally 'correct'.

[Galadwen of Lorien]

wow, I never noticed till now. I guess I was distracted by *cough* Legolas<BR> peace, elven love, & namarie,<BR> Galadwen

[Elrond Jr]

While talking about accents, remember in the commentary of the extended FOTR DVD..... When Sean Astin was talking of the scene on weathertop where he was losing his accent back to american, haha. That was funny.

[Frodo 007]

I only ever noticed how Pippin's accent was different!Very Scottish but i suppose that's coz Billy's Scottish! I didn't really realise that the other ones were that different...

[Everdawn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> English/American twang <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which sounds a little like australian, it is the bi-product. Man i am so sure thats how we got our accents, they only have come about in the last 90 or so years, before that everyone still sounded english...

[peony_foxburr]

"An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him / The moment he talks, he makes some other Englishman despise him!" <BR>("Why Can't The English?" from <I>My Fair Lady</I>)<BR>One of the most enjoyable qualities of the Downs is the worldwide perspective; Lyra, the best most of us can do on this side of the pond is distinguish "BBC" or "upper class" accents from "rural" or "urban working class!" So I applaud your distinguishing regional differences between Boromir and Faramir's "English" accents. On the other hand, I can <I>almost</I> always tell when a British actor is "doing" an American accent. They'll slip up and pronounce something a little too "clipped," or sound <I>too</I>"twangy." Now, I had never heard of Elijah Wood before LOTR, and saw FOTR before I knew anything about him. His English accent was convincing enough, to my American ears, that I was mildly surprised to find out he was American. (Whereas I could tell right away that Sean Astin and Viggo Mortensen weren't British) But then I think a generic English accent is a bit easier for most Americans to imitate, than a specific dialect. <P>"There even are places where English completely disappears--/ In America, they haven't spoken it for years!"<BR>(also from "Why Can't The English?")<BR> Peony, who has an "Eastern" American accent, but starts to pick up the accent of whomever she is speaking with--

[Arathiriel]

Hmmmmmm...<P>The only time I have ever noticed an accent slipping was after someone pointed out to me that Sam's accent comes and goes during the movies. Now when I watch FOTR, I have noticed quite a few scenes where Sam's accent sounds more American than British...<P>Really the accent issue doesn't bother me all that much, especially where Sam is concerned because I don't know about you guys but when I am watching one of the movies I get so absorbed in the performances of the actors that I fail to notice any accent slip-ups...<P>I will have to try and note some of the things y'all mentioned about Viggo's accent in the movies though...

[Lyta_Underhill]

I suppose I've never really studied the various accents, but I can see what you all refer to. I have only seen TTT one time, so I can't actually remember what Faramir sounds like. Boromir, however, is crystal clear! So that's Yorkshire? Speaking of accents, how do you like Celeborn's (Martin Csokas) accent? That's got to be his real accent, since he also talks like that as Xena's ex-boyfriend Borias...(I love to call Celeborn that, just to be ridiculous!). And Karl Urban does a great American accent in Xena as Julius Caesar...and yet he is a New Zealander! I am always surprised by individual accents/dialects. <P>There are interesting pockets of dialect variation here in the US as well. There is one area of Birmingham, Alabama where everyone sounds like he or she is from California. Drive a few miles south to Sylacauga, Alabama however, and you've got the birthplace of Jim Nabors (surprize surprize surprize! It's Gomer Pyle! The most stereotypical of US Southern accents imaginable!). And forget about pegging a Florida accent! Half are from New York or Canada and the other half are from a Spanish speaking country! (I get to say this, being a native Floridian, lapsed!)<P>All that aside, I did notice, in retrospect, that Sean Astin drops his accent now and then. But for some reason, it does not jar me as others have done in the past (Keanu Reeves has to do the worst "English" accent I've ever heard!). Sean's English and American sounds blend together well and it does not sound like he is "putting it on" at a particular time. Same with Elijah Wood. And I too thought the strange Viggo accent was Danish. I tend to become hypnotized by Viggo's voice, however, and I don't think I can be objective about it! <P>Well, that's all I can think of to say about that! Interesting discussion! <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta (who is always asked, no matter where she goes, "You ain't from around here, are you?")

[Meela]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Speaking of accents, how do you like Celeborn's (Martin Csokas) accent? That's got to be his real accent, since he also talks like that as Xena's ex-boyfriend Borias...(I love to call Celeborn that, just to be ridiculous!) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Celeborn... *dreamy sighs and wishing she was Galadriel*<P>His Celeborn accent is his real accent? I thought that being from New Zealand, he would have a NZ accent...<P>I loved his Russian accent in xXx! *more dreamy sighs*

[Finwe]

I think that it depends on who the cast is around. If they're around, say Northern English people, then I think their accents slightly change. God knows, I do the same! My "accent" can change from generic American, to Eastern American, to British, to Spanish, to Australian English, and to Indian in the blink of an eye. It just depends on where you are and who you are around.

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

We should remember than Middle-Earth is like our planet, and different regions of it and even different regions of those regions have different accents (if that even made sense). Remember in the Extended FotR when Harry Goatleaf said, "And what's more, out of the Shire by your talk!" And I think I remember somewhere that I read Merry talked in a Buckland accent. Granted, this does not solve the characters from the same places with different accents problems. We can just blame that on Gandalf.<P>***Sorry if someone else typed this already!***<p>[ June 14, 2003: Message edited by: Horse-Maiden of the Shire ]

[Everdawn]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> We can just blame that on Gandalf. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>yeah! now we have a scapegoat!

[QuickSlash]

Ah, accents. Something I enjoy, but don't study. <P>With me, I live in the US, and in the Midwest. It's the accent that isn't an accent, at least to me. Now, if I watch something that has a consistant accent (Monty Python), or listen to someone in person who has an accent, I, without noticing it, pick it up. <P>Now, I'm wondering if any of them might've had something like that. Every day of filming, you're bound to have *at least* more than one person different. What if during certain days, that tipped the hat in one way or another? Maybe (any of the actors) was around more English people one day, more American another, more New Zealand, etc, and that affected his voice?

[Katie-lyn]

QUickSlash i think you may have soemthing there, I mean it sounds pretty Logical...I have to agree with alomsot everyone else, about Billy's Accent. Ugh, I could sits down and liste to him talk all day ^^...I love irish, scottish and brittish acents...But I can tell where they slipp casue I watch Monty Pythin alot which like Slash said has a pretty firm/steady accents. So its wierd but hey there only human...Though Elijah may have been a god at one point No I'm just playing...But overall I guess they do pretty good with the accents but thats just my lil ol opinion...

[Froda]

you know, i never really noticed! hmm...kinda ineresting! although i think the accents made the characters more interesting!

[Roccotari Eldandil]

I never really noticed the accents TOO much...I mean, I did notice Viggo's Moria-steps (ooh!!) and Billy's Scottish, but they all seemed to blend in. I'm a sucker for accents anyway, they distract me so bad I can't detect little slip-ups. (all right, mushy girl moment over.) The only thing that annoys me on a regular basis is how Frodo always says Modo instead of Mordor.

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I always thought it was weird that Pippin had such a different accent from everyone else. I mean, Billy Boyd is Scottish isn't he? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, he's from Scotland. I think he doesn't have an English accent since in the FOTR commentary, Ian McKellan says that Took isn't pronounced like "book", so it's more Scottish or something. Therefore he believes that the Tooks are like Scottish hobbits, and I agree. Besides, if you think about it, the only difference between Billy's real voice and his Pippin voice is that he only had to make his voice higher to sound more hobbity. I think that Billy Boyd just couldn't shake his accent, considering it's a very Scottish accent. My dad had this friend from Taiwan (sp?), and he spoke perfect English, but he had a rich Tawain-ish accent that he just couldn't shake. So that concludes my explanation on why Pippin didn't have a more English accent like everyone else. Sorry for the rambling!

[stickifinger]

I thought I was the only one that noticed that Hama had a really different sounding accent from anyone else in any of the three movies. Now I guess I realize that Glamdring did, too. But Hama's just jumped out at me. It sounded like a cowboy in a Western to me. None of the others sounded out of place, but I'm from the U.S. midwest living in Central America and my ear may be out of whack.

[Armetiel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now I guess I realize that Glamdring did, too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Glamdring is the name of Gandalf's sword...it doesn't speak at all...

[Sleepy Ranger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Now I guess I realize that Glamdring did, too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gandalf's sword could talk? So maybe Turin's sword did talk but its the only one that did. Now Glamdring blade of Gondolin doubt it could talk. Sting and Orcrist don't so why should the sword used by King Turgon and Olorin talk?

[Armetiel]

^And even if it did talk, I'm wondering why it would have the same accent as Hama lol<p>[ 3:56 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Armetiel ]

[Sleepy Ranger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And even if it did talk, I'm wondering why it would have the same accent as Hama <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You see PJ was actually intending on making Glamdring talk at the sight of Hama. It would say "Hama do you not recognise me? I am your long lost brother Glamdring." At which Hama would say,"Brother is that you? I am truly sorry please by all means enter."<BR>Then Pj would have Gandalf kill Grima.<BR>Should be in Mirth.

[Armetiel]

ROFL!!!!<P>Can you imagine the fan reaction if PJ HAD put that into the movie <P>Hey maybe Glamdring could then vouch for Anduril and get him in too <P>"Brother Hama, Master Anduril is our friend."<P>lol, edited to add: re-reading what I just wrote I think that Glamdring is now related to Gollum as well lol...making Hama and Gollum ..hmm...distant cousins <p>[ 4:19 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Armetiel ]

[Lalaith]

In the UK there is a generic term for American/foreign actors making a hash of English accents: it's called 'doing a **** van Dyke' (from the god-awful 'gorblimey guv 'cockney chimney sweep he attempted in the otherwise delightful Mary Poppins)<BR>Now, I'm not saying that anyone in LotR was that bad at all, but there were a few D-van-D moments, and many of them came from Sean Astin. <BR>And yes, I think Merry should have been a bit more posh. Viggo's all-over-the-place accent wasn't a problem for me, as Aragorn was someone who had grown up and lived all over. <BR>But Orlando occasionally got a bit too posh, bless him. "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!" he sounds just like a star turn in the Eton school play.

[dragoneyes]

Ahh, **** Van Dyke, the memories! I've not met a single foriegner able to do the good ole cockney accent well. Then again, I've not met all that many foreigners. Well, I say it's probably best that Serkis did the orcs' voices, not that they said much, but those accents have a real ability to pull me out of the moment.<P>And I don't care what all you say about the Tookish accent, everything I read is in an English accent and it's staying that way! It's not at all geographically correct anyway, that's my argument and I'm sticking with it!

[Kransha]

John Rys-Davies, in one interview, talked about how PJ had discussed his and Tolkein's take on accents. He said that each location or people might have a distinct accent or method of speech to use. He described dwarves a gruffer, less distinct, semi-Scottish accents, elves as a sort of Welsh lilt, Hobbits a generally English, Welsh, or even Irish, Orcs as a primitive variation of cockney, Gondorians more profound and pronounced, and Rohirrim as very earthy. This, of course, could not be strictly followed by the actors, since they had accents they couldn't change.<P>Gimli's accent worked as the gruff dwarf<BR>Baromir was great in the role, but his un-changeable accent may have resembled a hobbit.<BR>Aragorn, Legolas, Theoden, Denethor, Grima, Eowyn, and the four hobbits were coached. Grima developed his own snivelling speech. Theoden and Eowyn both developed the careful Rohirric dialect, although Gamling and Hama didn't. Legolas pulled off the Welsh, Denethor had perfect noble diction, and Aragorn sounded very mannish, in a sense. Pippin's accent could not be altered, but Merry, Sam, and Frodo all adopted pseudo-accents and lilts.

[stickifinger]

I apologize profusely for my typo. I should have known better. However, I agree that the talking sword could have possibilities.

[Fool Of A Took]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only thing that annoys me on a regular basis is how Frodo always says Modo instead of Mordor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL!! It really annoys me too! I guess that's the english accent that Elijah has?

[Finwe]

The pathetic thing is, Elijah Wood doesn't even <I>have</I> an English accent. He's as American as they come! I think it had something to do with the type of accent that the writers wanted him to develop. Another possibility is that the Hobbits' natural mispronunciation of Elvish names and words. They pronounced the names as they thought it should be pronounced, based on their phonology. The phonology of Sindarin is completely different than the phonology of Westron, ergo, the Hobbits got many words all wrong. Look in the Appendices of Return of the King for more information on that. It's all rather educational.

[Ainaserkewen]

I keep hearing the word “slip” when it comes to the accent department. I have a hard time believing that the directors, luiguists, and anybody else involved in language could sit there and not notice it. I’m getting the feeling that the accent “slips” are deliberate. I am not talking about the differences in accents, I’m talking about when Sean Astin loses some of his british charm. Perhaps the directors had them say each line a million different ways with emphasis on different words with varying degrees of accent stress, then picked the best one in the editing room. There aren’t too many real slip ups in the actual acting of a movie because why stick with a slip up when you can do it again?

[zb]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Took isn't pronounced like "book", so it's more Scottish or something<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As was posted way back earlier, the oo in Took is the same sound as the o sound in shoe. Which I guess could be called Scottish, but it could well also be from northern parts of England. My grandma from Lancashire would pronounce Took and book to have the same o sound as shoe, for example.<P>That said, has anyone heard recordings of JRRT reading from lotr? JRRT's Sam voice and Astin's Sam voice are very different. They're both english country bumpkin, but that's about it. I guess the voice JRRT puts on had too much humour value... (if you've heard it, you'll know what I mean)