What do you think is the most important thing that PJ should do well in RotK?

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

The question is pretty much self-explainitory: I thought I’d just ask it because I’d like to know some peoples’ opinions. I, myself, think that there are too many important ones too say which one is ”most important”, but if I had to choose one, I guess I’d say the Grey Havens. PJ said, in a recent interview, that he thought that he had done them well, so I hope he’s right.<P>~Menelien<p>[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Nyneve]

I think the scouring of the shire and the gray heavens should be part of the movie

[Yavanna Kementari]

I would say that the Grey Havens is a pretty important thing that he should explain!<P>I also think that he should show how important Aragorn actually is and how much authority he posses.<P>I think that it is sad that they haven't explained the signifigance of the White Tree! I think that he should focus on that a little.<P> Of course I could think of a million things that he could (and better) explain and portray! Neat thread!<BR> <I>~(~<~></I>Yavanna Kementari

[HCIsland]

Grey Havens. Undoubtedly.<P>H.C.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Hooray! HC agrees <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think the scouring of the shire and the gray heavens should be part of the movie <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Grey Havens will be a part of the movie. Not the Scouring, though. I think that also the burning of Denethor should be done perfectly, and the romance between Eowyn and Faramir shouldn't be overdone, like the one between Arwen and Eowyn. The confrontation between the Witch-King and Eowyn and Merry also. Alright, if I keep going like this, I'll name every scene, so I'll shut up now. <P>~Menelien<P>Edit: As for the White Trees, I would certainly like that in the movie, but, realistically speaking, it won't be. Non Tolkien addicts wouldn't get it and we'd be constantly annoyed by questions like: "What was that weird tree thing all about?"<P>[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]<P>Edit 2: I meant the romance between Aragorn and Arwen. <p>[ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Earendil Halfelven]

I throw my vote out for the Paths of the Dead. To me, thats probably what shows Aragorn's true authority as the Heir of Isildur-how he is calling people back from the past to fulfill their oath. Do you think they'll look like zombies?

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I hope they don't I think they should be more-or-less just slightly greenish spectral... things. <P>~Menelien

[elven maiden Earwen]

Grey Havens all the way<P>then How the ring was distroyed,Faramier and Eowyn(one of favorite parts of the book), and the Aragorn &Arwen stuff with Elrond and the white tree, and the fellowships last goodbyes, dangit forgot the whichking sence<p>[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: elven maiden Earwen ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> then How the ring was distroyed, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>1. Wow, I totally forgot about the part that is, in essence, the most important part of the Lord of the Rings! And I want the goodbye between Elrond and Arwen to be touching but not overly sentimental.<P>~Menelien

[Shy Hobbit]

Probably the scene I'm most concerned about being done right is Eowyn and Merry's part with the Witchking. Just hoping they don't pull something like they did with the Fords of Bruinien. Looking foward to the Grey Havens as well. *sighs* Most of the scenes I'm looking foward to, I'm also dreading. They'll be so horribly emotional

[Trippo The Hippo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> and the romance between Eowyn and Faramir shouldn't be overdone, like the one between Arwen and Eowyn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Might I ask as to which romance between Arwen and Eowyn we are referring too.<P>As for my feelings on the issue at hand. I think one thing that has not been mentioned is the scene at Shelob's lair. Where Sam would have given his own life just to save Frodo's. Then the amount of bravery he shows by trying to press on without the one thing that kept him going the whole time his Frodo.<P>I am sure this has been mentioned a thousand times, but I just think that when they leave out The scouring of the shire, they will have to make a new ending for Saruman. What about the non reader they will think the whole time that they know the truth, and one day we readers will have to bust the truth on them, and it will just kill them. <P><I>Was that to dramatic?</I>

[Liriodendron]

Arwen and Eowyn romance! ooooooh! Shelob and Sam's reaction, Deneathor and Farmir. I wonder if they will get into the Farmir and Gandalf relationship...probably not. Gollum at the Crack of Doom, Saruman's demise, Eowyn and the witch king, Aragorn fulfilling his destiny. I also wonder if they will have Merry and Pippen become the squires of Rohan and Gondor. Houses of healing????will it be there? Of course, the Grey Havens.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

*The Paths of the Dead.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think they should be more-or-less just slightly greenish spectral... things.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><B>(Maybe they will look like Barrow Wights?)</B><BR> <BR>*Portraying the courage and sadness of Sam in pressing on when he thinks Frodo is dead. <BR>*A delicate touch on the Faramir/Eowyn romance. <BR>*Aragorn's healing of Merry, Eowyn & Faramir.<BR>*Eowyn & Merry destroying the Witch King.<BR>*Pippin & Gandalf saving Faramir from Denethor.<BR>*Sam's rescue of Frodo from the tower of Cirith Ungol (will Frodo <B>really</B> be naked?).<BR>*Aragorn's arrival at the Pelennor Fields in the ships and meeting Eomer on the battlefield.<BR>*The last day on Mount Doom where Frodo is too weak to walk and tries to crawl up the mountain, and is then carried by Sam.<BR>*Gollum biting off the ring (and Frodo's finger) and falling into the Cracks of Doom.<BR>*The rescue of Sam & Frodo by Gandalf, Gwahir, Landroval & Meneldor.<BR>*The crowning of Aragorn.<BR>*The parting of Arwen & Elrond.<BR>*The Grey Havens.

[Everdawn]

The wedding of Arwen and Aragorn, and the Grey havens... The emotional bits... Also.. The plennor Fields..

[Mornie Alantie]

I think that he should really be careful with the battles of Pellanor fields and the Black gate. For one, this is supposed to be the start of the world of men and Elves don't belong in the battles except Legolas. I hope Arwen is far from Minas Tirith during the fighting.<P>Also I would like to see the scene with Gollum looking over Sam and Frodo on the path to Cirith Ungol and regretting what he was about to do. I think that is really important to his character.

[Faramir Fan]

The redemption of Faramir would top my list <P>Seriously...I think the whole tension about the destruction of the ring should be done well. This started out as a hobbit's story and has grown to include so much more. Symbolic scenes like where Sam and Frodo throw away their packs and the climb up the mountain bring us back to the hobbit's role in all of this. There comes a point where they KNOW this is now a one-way trip and if handled well, it will be a very emotional part in the movie.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Might I ask as to which romance between Arwen and Eowyn we are referring too.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lol, you know what I meant <P>~Menelien<P>But that was an interesting typo...

[Trippo The Hippo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Lol, you know what I meant <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I suppose I did. I just could not resist.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Lol, I know what you mean. <P>Also the death of Saruman, thought I barely doubt that PJ won't screw that one up.<P>~Menelien<p>[ May 06, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Meela]

If what I've seen so far is correct, Saruman's death isn't too bad.<P>What do you think is the most important thing that PJ should do well in RotK?<P>Denethor.<P>And the Grey Havens, I suppose. And if he's including the crowning of Aragorn, I trust him entirely on the matter. He will get it right. (Or else... )

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If what I've seen so far is correct, Saruman's death isn't too bad. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What have you seen? I've seen a shot of Wormtongue drawing a dagger on the top of Orthanc and Saruman skewered on the spike of a giant wheel, which some folks claim is a red herring that was thrown out there.<P>H.C.

[Meela]

I have seen...<P>*wipes a fleck of dust off her palantir and stares into it some more*

[Oddwen]

The Shelob fight scene! Go Sam! Don't <I>mess</I> with MY scene, PJ! <BR>Seriously, I am really looking forward to that. Yet I'm scared that it might corrupt what I envision it as.<BR>And Pippin and the palantir, too. It'd be a good place to scare him into responsibility, so he'll realize finally what he's into.<BR>And give him something to reflect on while in Gondor. <BR>Hmm...

[Sapphire_Flame]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>(will Frodo really be naked?).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I hope not.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The Shelob fight scene! Go Sam! Don't mess with <I>MY</I> scene, PJ!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Right on, Oddwen!!! PJ <I>so</I> better do Shelob right!

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I've seen a shot of Wormtongue drawing a dagger on the top of Orthanc and Saruman skewered on the spike of a giant wheel <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Where'd you see that? <P>~Menelien

[Talon Stormcrow]

I agree with Shy Hobbit and Faramir Fan. <BR>The Eowyn and Witchking scene has to be done right! It is one of my favorite parts of the book.<BR>And I really hope Faramir will be better than in TTT...that was disppointing. <P>Im lookin forward to the Pyre of Denethor too. I hope that will be done right and not be really cheesy.

[Arvedui III]

Herm, well, PJ should do all of the scenes well. But I think he especially handle Aragorn turning from this 'I don't wanna be the king' ranger into the Elessar Telcontar we know from the books. The houses of healing, the battle of Pellenor fields (specially the slaying of the witch king), his crowning all should be superb. <P>Also Denethor, Eowyn and Faramir's love, Mount Doom, the gray heavens, Merry and Pippen turning from semi-comic relief into squires of Gondor and Rohan (and hopefully PJ will NOT do that by giving all of jokes to Gimli), and ahh I'll name every part of the book if I keep going.

[Gorwingel]

I just hope that the film is not too cheesy.<BR>I have absolute faith that the actual fight between Shelob and Sam will be spectacular because all the other fights (like the Balrog) were all very well done. But, yes, I am actually kind of worried about how they handle the emotional part when Sam and Frodo, these were some of my favorite parts of the book.<P>I also hope the departure from Middle Earth to the Grey Havens in very emotional. I will be greatly dissapointed if I <B>don't</B> cry during that part.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And I really hope Faramir will be better than in TTT...that was disppointing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, don't start on that topic, too many opinions. I liked Faramir...<P>~Menelien

[Meela]

I suddenly realised that in amongst all these spiders and havens and love stories and super evil dudes called Faramir, there is some guy called Theoden, who dies and proclaims his nephew to be king. That is now the most important part of the movies for me.

[Lalaith]

One favourite bit of mine, which I feel fairly confident *will* be done well, is the Ride of the Rohirrim. <BR>Other favourites: Eowyn and the Witch King - I'm a bit anxious about this as I thought Eowyn too girlie in the movie TT. <BR>Houses of Healing I'm pretty sure they will screw this up if they keep it in. It will be too Hollywood.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Where'd you see that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Go <A HREF="http://www.kojiroabe.com/rotk/rotk01.html" TARGET=_blank>here</A> and scroll down.<P>H.C.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Heehee, those're cool pictures! I couldn't see the one of the Eye, though! It does say that it's of when Pip looks in the palantir, so that's good. That's another scene that I hope PJ does right!!!

[Orual]

<B>SPOILER ALERT--PICTURE FROM ROTK!!</B><P>The most important thing for them to get right is this:<P>|<BR>|<BR>|<BR>V<P> <P>~*~Orual~*~

[Everdawn]

John Rhys-Davies seems to think that Sean Astin will recieve an academy nomination for his role as Sam in ROTK... I sure hope he is right.

[Scott]

I don't think that it's the Paths of the Dead that needs all of the attention as some of you guys have mentioned as much as the entrance of Aragorn and the shadow armies onto the pelennor battle fields. For me, this was one of the most climactic parts of the story, and if done right could not only show the power and authority Aragorn possesses, but also the importance of the legacy of men "saving the day" so to speak for middle earth. When Elrond said "it is men we must now turn to" (or something of the sort) in the Fellowship of the Ring, this was the first image that popped into my mind.

[Lyra Greenleaf]

He has to has to has to include Merry helping to kill the Witch King and Pippin "growing up" in Gondor. That is so important and if they don't have it I think I may cry for ALL THE WRONG REASONS this time. Faramir and Eowyn they have to do well, but I doubt romance will be a big problem. They'lll probably all breathe a sigh of relief that this is one thing film makers can usually manage OK. I think they'll manage the Grey Havens OK, they seem to do Elvish things like Rivendell and Lorien well. The Paths of the Dead could easily look really stupid. Doing it from Gimli's POV would be good, as it effects him most, I'd say

[Iarwain]

The seige of Gondor and the battle of the Pellenor fields are the key points.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

My opinion, as of now, (it changes fast), is that two things are the most important in the movie, as they are in great danger of going all Hollywood: the Grey Havens, and the part in the way beginning, a picture of which Orual posted. That especially, as there is a great chance that it will be done all sobby and/or oh-I’ve-failed!-I’m-done... Sean better be good.<P>~Menelien

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I highly agree with Orual! The Frodo and Sam moments are what really needs to be there for me. The heartbreak when Sam decides to continue the journey alone... the part where the orcs think they are being followed by an Elven Warrior... Sam's reluctance to give the ring back to Frodo... there's already been spoilers about where Sam carries Frodo... just so many many more moments!<P>And here are some other things I would love to see kept in:<P>~Merry and Pippin's meeting in Minas Tirith, where Merry says, "are you here to bury me"<BR>~A great struggle between Denethor, Gandalf, and Pippin when Denethor is trying to take Faramir with him<BR>~The Uruk-hai catapulting the heads of the dead into the courts of Minas Tirith<BR>~Theoden telling Eomer to tell Eowyn goodbye, not realizing that she lay dying beside him<BR>~I also wish for a prologue that follows the characters' journey's into the Appendixes of the books<P>And one last thing... when the troll falls on Pippin I just hope it doesn't look exactly the same as when Pippin was almost trampled in TTT.

[Scott]

I agree Tigerlily, even though seeing severed heads flying over the walls of Minas Tirith would be fairly gut wrenching, it is definitely a must.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>the entrance of Aragorn and the shadow armies onto the pelennor battle fields.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, the shadow armies didn't come upriver to the Pelennor Fields. They captured the fleet of Umbar at Pelargir, and Aragorn then declared their Oath to be fulfilled: "and swiftly the whole grey host drew on and vanished like a mist that is driven back by a sudden wind". The army that came with Aragorn was comprised of captives and slaves who had been folk of Gondor, along with men of Lebennin & Lamedon.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The Frodo and Sam moments are what really needs to be there for me. The heartbreak when Sam decides to continue the journey alone... there's already been spoilers about where Sam carries Frodo... just so many many more moments!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The relationship between Frodo and Sam is the most important element in the story for me. Their friendship and the sacrifices that each make for the other are the main reason that I've had a 37 year love affair with LotR.

[Meela]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ~The Uruk-hai catapulting the heads of the dead into the courts of Minas Tirith<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think I'd die if they left that out.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ~Theoden telling Eomer to tell Eowyn goodbye, not realizing that she lay dying beside him <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>*sniffle* that's so beautiful...

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> They captured the fleet of Umbar at Pelargir, and Aragorn then declared their Oath to be fulfilled: "and swiftly the whole grey host drew on and vanished like a mist that is driven back by a sudden wind". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But PJ will probably have them on the fields anyway. More effective for the not Tolkienistic people, unlike ourselves. <P>~Menelien

[Wolf Larson]

The scourging of the shire although important as a closing will not be shown. The seige against Gondor should be central as they have built it up so that even those who know nothing about Tolkien or the books already can say Gondor and know it is LOTR. The Witch-King is an essential part of the books however Gandalf's defiance of the Mouth of Sauron is very important, is gives to the charcter the true strength he has. (I mean he was given an elven ring of power) Frodo's refusal should be plainly portrayed. (He speaks in a voice clearer than Sam ever heard him use before) Shelob should not be underestimated, Gollum should drive us crazy with hate and pity, and Eowen and Faramir should act as it is written. <P>Respectfully submited.<BR> -Wolf Larson

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Well... they're in a bit of a tight spot with the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It's supposed to be really big and important, much more so than the Battle of Helm's Deep, but if they make it bigger, it would be kind of monotonous for non-LotR fans, and if they made it smaller, it wouldn't make sense, as it is more important.<P>~Menelien

[Lalaith]

You know, I never understood why Aragorn let them all bugger off after Umbar. Why not make them stick around and go and cause some grief at the Morannon?

[Elennar Starfire]

I haven't read RotK for a while so I don't remember much, but I will be upset if the ending is messed up.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Lalaith- because that wasn't a part of their oath. They did what they had promised to, and then they just faded into normal deadness. (Is that even a word?)<P>~Menelien

[Frodo Brandybuck]

The Paths of the Dead. It's a short part but probably one of the freakiest things in TTT (but will be in RotK)and the Frodo and Sam parts.

[Oddwen]

I hope you forgive me, I just wanted to say something-the shadow armies never came to the Pellenor fields. Aragorn set them free after the ships at Lebenin were captured.<BR>And it was Merry who was almost trampled, if you mean by Treebeard.<BR>Or is it that "AHHHHHH!" shot?<BR>I do agree, Sam had better be done right. RotK is probably the most emotional book, everything ends and the rain falls.<BR>"Some of us may meet at times, but I fear that all of us will be gathered together ever again."<BR>*sigh* :'( Sorry, just some pining here...

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sean Astin will recieve an academy nomination for his role as Sam in ROTK... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course he will! He will receive an Oscar! For Best Actor, too, not Best Supporting Actor! I know he will! He must! Or else I will.... Well he should have gotten one already, but that's another story entirely...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Sean better be good. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course he will be! He always is! Okay, I'll stop now.<P>I really hope they get "The Battle of Pelennor Fields" right, because it's my favorite LOTR chapter (that and "The Choices of Master Samwise" ). I also look forward to the Grey Havens, and I hope they include the statue at the crossroads, even though they probably won't. I look forward to ROTK in general, and hope it turns out to be the best of the three movies (it has to, doesn't it? ).

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

There was an interview somewhere with John Rhyes-Davis where he said from what he's seen of ROTK that Sean Astin is very likely to be nominated for an Oscar. I'm am gonna need the biggest vat of tissues ever while watching this movie. But I am waiting... I want to cry buckets... I want to reach emotional extremes with the characters.... that is important to me.

[Legolas]

Gollum better bite off Frodo's finger/Ring and fall into Mt. Doom.<P>He should not alter the fate of any characters or make up silly fates for those whose fate is not clearly outlined.

[Liriodendron]

Yes, I am very "right" with Gollum as a bad guy. A pitiable baddie, but the guy IS evil.I would find a change on the Crack of Doom part irritating, to say the least!<p>[ May 14, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[Faramir Fan]

I agree with Gollum being the bad guy...but wouldn't I love to see Sam give him a little push instead of Gollum just losing his balance...Not that I think it would happen

[HCIsland]

What I want to see happening at the Cracks of Doom is Frodo deperately reaching for the falling Gollum, almost going in himself (maybe Sam can pull him back) with a look of pure anguish on his face. It's not Gollum he is mourning of course, but the Ring.<P>I desperately hope PJ resists the temptation to turn this into a literal cliff hanger with Frodo hanging on to the dangling Gollum and then Gollum slipping through his fingers. I want Frodo to get close to grasping Gollum but I want him to miss.<P>H.C.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...but wouldn't I love to see Sam give him a little push instead of Gollum just losing his balance... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't see that as working. Gollum is portrayed as a semi-sympathetic character in TTT. The audience is given a glimpse of his "good" side and therefore feels some sympathy for him and pity for what he has become. Unless we see only his "sneaker" side in RotK (unlikely becaue his schizophrenic portrayal was a hit with audiences), Sam pushing him into the Crack of Doom will reflect badly on him (Sam, that is), and we certainly shouldn't be left with any bad feeling towards Sam at the end.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What I want to see happening at the Cracks of Doom is Frodo deperately reaching for the falling Gollum, almost going in himself (maybe Sam can pull him back) with a look of pure anguish on his face. It's not Gollum he is mourning of course, but the Ring. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, that would be good, particularly if it is done so that we are left feeling unsure whether it was really Gollum or the Ring Frodo was trying to save. We want to think that it was Gollum, but we suspect that it was probably the Ring. I don't think that this would cause audiences to think badly of Frodo, knowing what he has gone through and seeing him finally succumb to the Ring at the end. PJ has to set things up so that it is entirely understandable to the audience why Frodo can no longer live in the Shire and why he therefore departs to the Undying Lands. (I wonder how PJ will make it clear that this does not mean that Frodo is becoming immortal - or maybe he won't bother.)

[The Only Real Estel]

I think they should make the Frodo/Sam travel good, but not so 'emotional' that the idiots out there in the world will call Frodo & Sam gay. I hate it when people start saying things like that about a perfectly good movie ( & perfectly good characters/actors )! I think it is important to have Shelob done well, if not done correctly, she would turn out really stupid looking. I heard it is a great possibility that that the heads will be left out at Minis Tirith, possibly to help make sure this movie stays at PG-13...although I'd love to see them! Also, I think the Battle at the Fields should be done really well, but I fear it will disappoint some book-loving fans ( like me ); if only because of the added scenes were Aragorn is battling Sauron ( or the Witch King, I hope ), that will anger more than a handful of book fans ( I haven't made up my mind about it yet ).

[Elfchick7]

Well I definately have a lot to say about this topic. First of all Eowyn and Merry's bit with the Witchking better be done well and PJ better not mess with the Wedding of Arwen and Aragorn. (My favorite part! ) Also the destruction of the ring. Oh, I like the part where Gandalf breaks Sauraman's staff and kicks him out of Isengard. I am interested in how PJ will incorperate Pippin and the Palantir into all this. Anyway I could go on forever. How do ya'll think that He's going to fit all this stuff into three hours?

[Lyra Greenleaf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Merry and Pippin's meeting in Minas Tirith, where Merry says, "are you here to bury me"<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I love that part, people make so much of Frodo and Sam's bond but Meery and Pippin are so close...Thats really sad. But I just KNOW it won't be there. I'm not convinced PJ is overly keen on Merry and Pip as anything but comic relief.<P>I think it's really bad that the Scourging of the Shire is going to be cut. It just shows the attitudes of Hobbits so well- able to fight in a tight spot. But then in the films Hobbits can't fight. Oh no, they just sort of stand around cringing. Thanks PJ. Also I like the idea that the Hobbits are so taken with Merry, Pippin and sam as they look and act like heroes but ignore Frodo. Well maybe like is the wrong word- it's very unfair! I was very upset that they cut the Ent Draught- one of my favourite lines was (something like) "If you mean to beat the Old Took I can't see why we can't go after the Bullroarer."

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm not convinced PJ is overly keen on Merry and Pip as anything but comic relief. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope that you are wrong. Lyra. I must admit that I have been slightly disappointed so far by the portrayal as Merry and Pippin as two rather interchangeable comic stooges. But their roles in RotK demand far more than this. They both become involved in some pretty serious episodes. Pippin and the Palantir, and later his scenes with Denethor and Faramir, not to mention Merry's run in with the Witch King, simply won't work if they continue to be treated solely as the light relief. Perhaps their separation will allow for thier characters to develop separately and with greater substance, but I fear that too little was done in the way of their character development in TTT for this to work fully in RotK.<P>With Merry and Pippin separated and becoming involved in more serious action, and less interaction between Gollum and Frodo/Sam, I wonder whether RotK will be an altogether darker film.<P>Mind you, I suppose there's always "Dwarf tossing" and "short Dwarf" jokes for Jackson to fall back on. Poor Gimli.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But then in the films Hobbits can't fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Merry and Pippin sure get some kills in Moria and on Amon Hen, especially in the special edition.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I was very upset that they cut the Ent Draught <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Catch the special edition TTT then. It's apparently there.<P>H.C.

[Iarwain]

I've just recieved the fright of my life. Wolf Larson mentioned "the Scourging of the Shire", and for a moment the thought entered my head that for the past seven years I've read the title of that chapter wrong. Of course, this would be nothing new. After all, it took me till three quarters of the way through TTT to understand that Barad-Dur was not Bran-Dur.<P>Anyway, after assuaging my fears and finding in official print the title "The Scouring of the Shire", I'm thinking that the two most important parts of RotK are:<P>-Denethor's suicide<P>-An accurate and worthy portrayl of Pippin's story, without any comics or stunts. He ought to be the grave, depressed soul that we see in the books, not a jolly little hobbit on a holiday.<P>Iarwain

[elle]

I totally agree about Merry and Pippin ! I want to see them a little more serious in RotK. And PJ better put in Merry as/ becoming Master of Buckland, Pippin as/becoming Thain or the Took, and Sam maybe as/becoming mayor of Shire. Also the Mount Doom part should be good and the battle and Shelob, and Aragorn becoming King, and everything in the book, almost, should be in the movie, I mean people who haven't read the books won't get how great it is! But how is he(PJ) going to fit this all in! This is worring me, badly, I want to see so many parts in there, but there is so little time! Does anyone agree? I wish it was out earlier!

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> This is worring me, badly, I want to see so many parts in there, but there is so little time! Does anyone agree? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nope.<P>Count the pages that still need to be covered and the ones that already have. He's pretty much right on track.<P>Return of the King is a far more simple movie to adapt than the previous two. In Fellowship so much had to be established, characters, plot, locations. It was dizzying. <P>Two Towers had to be twisted and tweaked to give it a sense of being it's own film with a beginning, middle and end. The whole country of Rohan had to be introduced with it's own set of characters and inter-relationships not to mention Fangorn and Ithilien.<P>Return of the King has only one major character to introduce, Denethor and his relationship to the other characters is a simple one. He's Boromir's and Faramir's dad and leader of Gondor. All the locations, Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Mordor, The Black Gates and Grey Havens have already been talked about if not actually shown. The story has it's own natural arc, with a beginning, middle and end.<P>Personally, I'm not worried.<P>As for Pippin, I'm I the only one that finds him funny in the book too?<P>H.C.<p>[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Lyra Greenleaf]

No- Pippin is a funny character. But the point is that both he and Merry grow up and into their future obligations (which I very much doubt we'll be shown. "What's a Thain? What is he Master of? We were'nt told anything as background remember. It would be a completely new concept to burden the brains of non-lotraholics with)- and it seems we've seen precious little so far. Maybe this is to highlight the change when it comes? We'll see!

[HCIsland]

I think Merry and Pippin are already growing into more mature and nobel characters. I can't see that process doing anything else but continuing. I still think that Pippin will have his lines, as he does in the book. In Minas Tirith, Gandalf lambastes Pippin for not realizing that Aragorn is the returning King. Later, while Pippin is first being shown Minas Tirith his attitude is basically, that's all very nice but when do we eat?<P>These are funny scenes that I hope make the cut. Whether the movie will deal with Thainships and Mayoralties, it seems doubtfull, but one never knows. There's only so much that can be realistically dealt with. Overall though, I like the way in which Merry and Pippin have been portrayed.<P>H.C.

[Estella Brandybuck]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and I hope they include the statue at the crossroads, even though they probably won't<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><A HREF="http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots_rotk/maxim_hobbitsatcrossroads_tn.jpg" TARGET=_blank>This picture should please you.</A> I'm pretty sure the statue has no head, but it's difficult to tell... ah well, we can hope. <P>I agree with HCIsland about Merry and Pippin - mainly because of their role in the last half hour or so of TTT movie. Especially Merry's little monologue about how "The fires of Isengard with spread..." And their faces during the flooding of Isengard - can't really describe it, but from the looks they wore, I saw two hobbits who were understanding the vastness and power of all that was going on.<P>Don't think that made any sense at all, but oh well... And I'll admit, it did seem to me like they were mostly there for comic relief the first time I saw FotR (this was before I'd read the books, so I didn't fully comprehend their roles in the story), but TTT gave them a bit more, for me anyway. But to each their own. We all interpret these things differently. <P>Now, for the topic at hand, the things I'm hoping will be done well, in no particular order:<P>1. Merry and Éowyn's battle with the Nazgûl King. I think I'm going to cry if Éowyn's wonderful line is taken out - "But no living man am I!" Then again, I'll probably cry if it is left in, but for different reasons. <P>2. Mount Doom. Duh. PJ probably knows his life is forfeit if anything important about that sequence changes.<P>3. Denethor. Maybe this is just my paranoia talking, but I've been a bit worried about he'll be portrayed. I always found him to be a fascinating character, and I really hope they don't change much about him.<P>4. Éomer and the Rohirrim charging towards what they thought were the Corsairs of Umbar, and the unveiling of Arwen's banner. That scene is so stirring and powerful, and I think it would look amazing on a big theater screen. I just hope it's done the way it should be done, the way it was originally written...<P>5. The relationship between Faramir and Éowyn. I really like how Wenham and Otto performed in TTT (I didn't like how Faramir was written in the movie, but I thought Wenham did a wonderful job with him despite that), and I trust both of them to do those scenes perfectly. I'm just worried about how their developing relationship will be written. Hopefully, PJ will put the proper emphasis on those scenes, and make their relationship as beautiful as it was in the books.<P>(I know what you're thinking - "Is she done <I>yet?</I>" Just bear with me.)<P>But the most important thing to me? Frodo and Sam. I'm reeeally hoping they keep as much of the original material as possible with them. From Shelob's Lair to the Grey Havens, I so very much want to see as much of the Frodo and Sam who were in the book as possible. Once again, I have faith in the actors, especially Sean Astin (it was him, after all, who made me originally fall in love with Sam). If Sean doesn't get an Oscar this time around... grrr.<P>Okay, just wondering, am I the only one who is really hoping that Sam will get to sing <I>something</I> in RotK? One of my all-time favorite parts of the books was when Sam sang that song in Cirith Ungol: <I>Above all shadows rides the Sun, and Stars forever dwell...</I> Alas, so few of the songs have been left in... I think Sean Astin will perform that scene in Cirith Ungol so wonderfully, but the only thing that would make it perfect for me was if the song was kept in. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

[Finwe]

If anyone has seen the sneak-peek pictures on the official LotR site, I think that all the scenes that involve those pictures should be done well. <P>Especially:<P>* Paths of the Dead<BR>* The fleet of the Corsairs sailing up the river w/ Aragorn's banner flying<BR>* Grey Havens<BR>* Elrond's farewell to Arwen<BR>* Aragorn's coronation<BR>* Faramir and Eowyn<BR>* Eowyn and Merry killing the Witchking<P>And a whole lot of other scenes that would be way too long to fit in here.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I hope they include he piece where Pippin "dies". I loved It would be good in the movie, unless they made it *too* sentimental.<P>~Menelien<P>Edit: ack, I just said it would be god, not good...<p>[ May 29, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I hope they include he piece where Pippin "dies". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that you can rest assured, GaladOTO. You know how PJ just <I>loves</I> making his audience think that characters have died.<P>Mind you, he has more than enough of these scenes to keep him happy in RotK, what with Frodo (in Cirith Ungol), Eowyn and Merry (after the Witch King encounter) <I>and</I> Faramir.

[Frodo2968thewhite]

Grey Havens, Paths of the Dead, The White Tree, Mt. Doom, Battle of Pelennor Fields, Palantir, crowning of Aragorn; Sadly, Saruman's death is WRONG!

[The Saucepan Man]

The discussion of the Shelob scene on the spoilers thread caused me to become quite intrigued as to how the Tower of Cirith Ungol will be handled. For example, will Jackson have all the Orcs running scared of Sam, thinking him to be a great Elvish warrior? I hope so. <P>Also, I wonder how they will portray the Ring's influence over Sam. I see this as quite important given the deterioration that we have already seen (and will no doubt continue to see) in Frodo. Seems to me that Jackson is quire keen on portraying the adverse affects of the Ring on its bearer. Witness Bilbo's reluctance to give it up and his "ghoul" face in Rivendell. And this will be the first time (chronologically) that we will have see anyone other than Frodo as its bearer since Bilbo gave it up. So I should think him quite keen to show the affect that it has on Sam. I would love to see its attempt to tempt him with "Samwise the Strong" and gardens spreading across Gorgoroth. <P>One final thought. I wonder whether the Silent Watchers of the Tower willl be there?<p>[ May 30, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[HCIsland]

I also hope the scene with Sam and the orcs in Cirith Ungol is kept. I think it's right up PJ's alley. Very visual and funny.<P>I also very much hope to see the effect that the Ring has on Sam. Thus far we've only had glimpses of how the Ring works. To see Sam imagining his gardens gives us a first hand view into it's power to deceive. We then have Sam looking at Frodo and suddenly he really understands this person he thought he understood so well. Sam has only had the Ring for a while. Frodo's carried it for months.<P>As for the Silent Watchers, I figure this shot is in front of the watchers.<P><A HREF="http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots_rotk/lotr2_saminshelobslair.jpg" TARGET=_blank>http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots_rotk/lotr2_sami nshelobslair.jpg</A><P>H.C.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I figure this shot is in front of the watchers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Really? I imagined that one as Sam confronting Shelob.

[Lasgalen]

I really really want Grey Havens done well. Also the Pyre of Denethor.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Really? I imagined that one as Sam confronting Shelob. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It just seems brighter to me than the other shots we've seen of Sam and Frodo. It looks like a different location and not in a cave.<P>If we want to keep up with this conversation, perhaps we should move it to the spoilers thread. I think we're hijacking this one.<P>H.C.

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> He should not alter the fate of any characters or make up silly fates for those whose fate is not clearly outlined. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not like he's ever done THAT before **coughhaldircoughcough**

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

the "death" of sauron must be done well, i mean hopefully the eye doesn't just explode or something!<BR>and the wedding of elessar and arwen...in the book galadriel participated in the wedding but in the film (FotR) she said to aragorn that they wouldn't meet anymore.what have PJ done already!?<p>[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

[Liriodendron]

So....how do you think the death of Sauron should go? Visuals? sounds? (That shaking vibration from the lower register tones might work well! ex.-*the door opening at bag end when Gandalf enters, the trolls opening the black gates*) Hmmmm can't wait to see it!

[Meela]

I think Sauron's death should just be the same as how he 'died' at the Battle of the Last Alliance. That was a perfect scene.

[barandilwen]

i argee with liriodendron and meela. i think thats sauron's death should be more focused on so that it can make a great impact to the audience. im so thrilled to watch the movie!!! <p>[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: barandilwen ]

[Meela]

I don't really think that Sauron is shown as a huge threat. It seems as though Saruman is more powerful now, and more worth focusing on. Like, Sauron is only the Dark Lord... oh no, not a big threat at all! I don't think he has been shown enough, especially as the main source of evil. Do you all get the same impression?

[Finwe]

Yup, I definitely do. It's almost as if Sauron is just this huge, comic flaming eyeball out to take over the world like Dr. Evil, and Saruman is the actual, intelligent villain, when it's actually the other way around. Sauron is far more intelligent than Saruman could ever be.

[HCIsland]

I agree as well. That's why I think Sauron will be a big part of RotK from a very early stage and Saruman will also be killed off early in the film. Saruman has been the main villian for two films but it is time for him to make room for the big guy.<P>H.C.

[Lily]

I wish PJ would put in the Scouring of the Shire sooo bad but he has to cut it out because there's not enough time! I wonder why that is!! anyway I also wish PJ did the Eowyn Merry Ringwraith part good!! And the battle part good! And well I just hope he didn't screw it up and make all these other parts that aren't in the book!!!! If it's not in the book don't put it in the movie!!geez!

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I wish PJ would put in the Scouring of the Shire sooo bad but he has to cut it out because there's not enough time! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is not just because there is insufficient time. The climax of the film will be reached with the Ring being thrown into Mount Doom and the defeat of Sauron, thus releasing the tension built up throughout most of the film. We will then have the happy scene of Aragorn's coronation and his marriage to Arwen and the bittersweet resolution of Frodo's Quest at the Grey Havens. To intersperse these scenes with another tension raising scene involving the Hobbits fighting for their Shire, while fine in the book (and it is one of my favourite chapters too), would not work well in film terms.

[Olorin]

I <B>REALLY</B> want to see Gandalf confront Saruman. That was my favorite part of TTT and they left it out of the movie. It made me so mad! <P>Also, I would really like to see Gollum's betrayal of Sam and Frodo to Shelob done well.

[Lord of Angmar]

I cannot fathom how they plan to fit the entire last 1/4 of the Two Towers while still fitting in the plot of Return of the King into 3 short hours and satisfying die hard fans like myself. However I have no doubt that Peter Jackson will be able to accomplish such a task. <P>For my part, I anticipate a very well-done interpretation of the confrontation between Gandalf and Saruman. In fact, anything less than an epic rendition of this scene would be a disappointment to me, as the Voice of Saruman is one of the best chapters in the Two Towers. I would also like to see an excellent portrayal of the battle outside the Black Gates, and the Grey Havens will be, I'm sure, a tear-jerker. <P>I can't wait for the Special Edition of the Two Towers, or the Special edition of Return of the King, which I am sure will be the longest because of the vast extent of the material that (sadly) must surely be left out to make Rotk a consumer-friendly 3-hour film.

[barandilwen]

i think they aren't going to be able to fit the ttt and rotk in three hours... i agree with everyone who thinks the same way as i do!!!! yipeee!!!!

[Helkahothion]

Pellenor fields and Shelob. They are so cool. I like big battles anyway. Ohw let's not forget at the gate of Mordor. What was it's name again? I lost it.<P>A question: Lossie tolled me that they are going to leave out the scorging of the Shire. Please tell me they are not.<P>Abedithon le,<P>Anuion

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Lossie tolled me that they are going to leave out the scorging of the Shire. Please tell me they are not.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry to disppoint you, Helka, but they are. Jackson has, I think, confirmed this in a number of interviews.

[The Only Real Estel]

Yes, & I think Wormtounge slitting Saruman's throat & throwing him out of a window, or off the top of Orthanc, at Isengard simply confirmed it further...

[Lasgalen]

From what I've heard, Scouring was never filmed so it won't even be in the SE DVD.

[Esgarcilion]

Well, it would be great if we could see an intense scene when Sam takes the ring

[helkahothion]

Darn, that is such a shame Sauce. But now it makes no sence and Sam's gift is worth scrap. There won't even be a Hobbit Battle. I was so looking forward to that. I think Maika was too, Hobbits dying . <P>It's a damn shame anyway. Now you can't see how desperate Saruman was in his search for control. It's a real shame. It's one of the greatest battles of the Periannath, and they just whipe it out. Bet they are going to focuse more on Gondor and stuff. Ohw well, they can't take Pellenor fields away from us no do they? <P>Abedithon le

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...the gate of Mordor.What was it's name again? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>it's Morannon<P>i was so disappointed when sam got a rope from galadriel not a nice little box at all?<BR>the kingly look of aragorn shoul be well done...not like in RotK calendar <A HREF="http://img-nex.theonering.net/images/rotk_calendar/aragorn_january.jpg" TARGET=_blank>(see here)</A> but like in the teaser poster <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=002157" TARGET=_blank>(see here)</A>!<p>[ July 01, 2003: Message edited by: dancing spawn of ungoliant ]

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Now you can't see how desperate Saruman was in his search for control. It's a real shame. It's one of the greatest battles of the Periannath, and they just whipe it out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, it really is a shame. But I think that they've already put too much focus on Saruman already, and not enough on Sauron. I wish PJ would make the Scouring of the Shire for us Tolkien fans and put it on that really special DVD thing that's coming out in 2005 or something.

[Kates Frodo Temp]

This thread is depressing me! I think we should all remember that this is not a movie of the book"s". It's a MOVIE VERSION of the book"s". <P>Someday, true fans will get together and make a movie directly from the book, without interpretation, enhancement, ect. Then we can expose deaf children who haven't learned to read to Tolkien, and enjoy the perfect film!

[The Only Real Estel]

There will probably never a be a 'specila film' in 2005. On a website PJ has been quoted for saying stuff about how buying the extended versions of each film will be a good investment because there won't be another film to upstage the extendeds. Sorry.<BR>

[Orofaniel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gollum better bite off Frodo's finger/Ring and fall into Mt. Doom. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with you.....I'll be sooooo dissapointed if it isn't done in a "proper" way in ROTK <P>I also think they'd better have The Grey Havens just the way I imagened it, or else.......I'll be....dissapointed too..... <P>And of course when they return to the Shire, Sam when he says; "Well I'm back," or something like that. I think that has to be the last line in the movie.

[The Only Real Estel]

They're going to end RotK 'properly'. Don't worry about that...

[helkahothion]

They'd better be, "Well I'm back" Almost made me cry.

[The Only Real Estel]

Helka: I'm sure at least that there's a scene with sAm & a little hobbit-child jumping into his arms ( presumably the 'I'm back' scene ).

[Meela]

Yeh, there are scenes with Elanor. She's really cute. I can't wait to see her on screen. A little Sean Astin-a-like staring back at us.

[The Only Real Estel]

I've never gotten a pic of Elanor's face. Just a kind've blurry picture of the aformentioned.

[Sauron 666]

I'm looking forward to the Passing of the Grey Company (aka The Paths of the Dead Part) I think PJ will come up with something better than the zombies in Dead Alive (not that theres anything wrong with that movie) <P>THe Grey Havens<P>Shelob's Lair-I want Shelob to be the most terrifying thing in middle earth (its a shame she gets slain by some little twerp like samwise gamgee) <P>The Cracks of Doom, specifically when Frodo puts on the ring and when Gollum bites his finger off ("NAsty little hobbits' tastes good") <P>Aragorn revealling himself to Sauron via the Palantiri<P>The battle sequences<P>The Watchers<P>Things i'd like to see but probably won't happen so PJ can give screen time to liv freaking tyler (yes i'm very bitter about her entire existence ) :<P>I think its a royal tragedy that they won't do the Scouring of the Shire, it has Saruman's best lines and its a perfect ending. <P>As little Arwen as possible <P>Frodo, Sam and Gollum walking by Minas Morgul and seeing the Witch King's army depart <P>Shagrat and Gorbag arguing/fighting faithful to the book

[helkahothion]

I would exchange her for the scourging anytime. Why does PJ places Arwen in the story so much. The only thing she does in the book is talk to Aragorn. She is being made some kind of superhero, while she did very little. I don't understand that. They could have made the battle at helm's deep bigger if they left out that stupid dream.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Why does PJ place Arwen in the story so much <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>because if there weren't those 'annoying' Arwen- scenes the character wouldn't work. every person who hasn't read LotR wouldn't understand who the heck that mysterious elf is.<BR>but i have to agree with you that the 'dream- scene' was stupid!

[The Saucepan Man]

A question to all those who dislike Arwen's role in the films: Do you think that she should be included in the trilogy (of films) at all?<P>If not, fine. Although her absence would, in my view, have robbed Aragorn of a big part of his motivation, made his resistance of Eowyn's charms seem rather strange, and disappointed audiences (I think) that he ends up on his own at the end.<P>If, on the other hand, Arwen is to take her rightful place in the films as the love of Aragorn's life and, ultimately, his bride, her expanded role makes a lot of sense. It would seem very strange to audiences who haven't read the books if the big finale in the third film involved Aragorn marrying some woman who they had only seen for a brief time in the first film (at Rivendell), if indeed they remembered her at all.<P>So, given that Aragorn's coronation and his marriage to Arwen is (as I understand it) going to form part of the joyful tension release scenes following the defeat of Sauron (prior to the bittersweet parting at the Grey Havens), it makes sense to me that Arwen be given greater involvement in the events portrayed throughout the three films.<BR>I therefore have little problem with her role in the two films so far (although I agree that the dream sequence was a little gratuitous, at least in the way that it was done, and I am very glad that they chose to drop Arwen from Helm's Deep).<P>One further question - why is film Arwen always being described on this site as a shieldmaiden? As far as I can see, the only vaguely "shieldmaiden-ish" thing that she has done so far is to ride to the Ford with Frodo and defy the Nazgul. Which, there being no swordplay or shields in sight, hardly qualifies her in my view as a shieldmaiden. Of course, she will undoubtedly qualify for the title if she turns up at Pelennor Fields - but let's hope that doesn't happen.

[Helkahothion]

Tolkien will turn in his grave if Arwen is on Pellonor fields. No elves are on the field, so neither is Arwen. They could have just placed the bridge scene with arwen and aragorn in lotr and make viggo explain something more about Arwen in ttt. They did no have to take 15 minutes for that. All good battle time. *pouts*<P>Abedithon le

[Meela]

I think Arwen should have been included.<BR>It was necessary to play up to the audience and introduce a little romance in order to refrain from it being an all-boys action battle film. It makes a better experience all round if it includes every genre.<BR>The shieldmaiden thing I do not approve of. Arwen is a great character who's role could easily be expanded, but only in the right way, ie. as a romance side story. To make her a warrior is not right, and even further from the books. Liv Tyler said herself that she didn't like the way Arwen was turning out at first, apparently. I'm not entirely certain how that was, but my head is telling me it was too warrior-like, and Liv agreed that Arwen should be less warrior-like. I don't know. I'll leave it...

[Sauron 666]

I would rather not have Arwen at all, if people are too lazy or shallow to read the books then why should we have to suffer for their stupidity, laziness and mediocrity? I couldn't care less about a love story, if thats what i wanted to see i'd watch some stupid romance movie. Damnit when I go to watch LOTR io go to see huge battles, elves, dwarves, epic struggles not some contrived generic romance story. If they had left it to that scene on the bridge in Rivendell i would be relatively fine, but that ridiculous dream sequence really ****es me off. <P>and i really hope there are no elves in the Pelannor Fields battle, though i would make an exception if Arwen were to be slain and slaughtered .

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I would rather not have Arwen at all, if people are too lazy or shallow to read the books then why should we have to suffer for their stupidity, laziness and mediocrity? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, you are right of course. Why should Jackson have bothered to make the films appealing to those who have not read the books ... er, apart from the fact that there would then have been no films. Good thing or bad thing? You decide. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> and i really hope there are no elves in the Pelannor Fields battle <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I rather hope that Legolas will be there.

[Arwen Eruantale]

The Grey Havens. Definitely. <BR>There are parts that seem like they might be more important. I would, for instance, like to see a believeable Shelob and a sickeningly beautiful wedding. But the ending is what sticks with you. The last scene of the LotR trilogy is quiet and sad, but grand in it's own way. The realisation of a mission accomplished and a world on it's way to restoration, but also the parting of what may well be the two most renowned friends in literary history. <BR>It's like a recital, you might mess up pretty bad halfway through, but if you nail the grand finale, that's all they'll ever remember.

[Lasgalen]

I hope the Mouth of Sauron gets to have his speech like it was in the book. "It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this Why? any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!"

[Meela]

The movies weren't there just for the amusement of people who hadn't read the books. I knwo I cannot talk because I haven't read the books properly, but I can understand why there has to be a certain degree of alteration from the books to allow for a movie that appeals to all audiences. Those who have read the books see the bulk of what they have read put into visualisation, as well as allowing them to see the story in a new light perhaps, and those who haven't read the books learn about a whole new story. And to gain a full audience there has to be a certain amount of each genre or whatever as well. The movies have to appeal to everyone. If they concentrated on satisfying those who read the books, only a small number of people would truly enjoy the film and fully understand it. Perhaps some parts would have confused those who did not already know the story, which is why the film cuts it all down to a minimum.

[The Only Real Estel]

I know they'll at least have the Mouth of Sauron, although I can't promise that exact speech...

[Finwe]

Yup, that's guaranteed. I can't wait for the scene at the Grey Havens at the end of the movie. When I read it in the book, I was crying because it was the end and because it was so beautiful. I hope it's like that in the movie. I have a feeling that Tolkien fans everywhere will probably end up bawling our eyes out that day just because it's the end!

[Arwen Eruantale]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I have a feeling that Tolkien fans everywhere will probably end up bawling our eyes out that day just because it's the end!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yes, the greatest flood since Noah's Ark will follow the release of The Return of the King...

[Sirithheruwen]

I would have to say Shelob's Lair or The Paths of the Dead. But, I agree, i want to see the Gray havens done nicely too.

[Orofaniel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Well I'm back" Almost made me cry. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It <B>made</B> me cry.....