Battle of Helms Deep

[The_Hand]

Hey out there. I'm new to the forum so I'm sorry if this has been pointed out before but I just have to.<P>In the movie, The Two Towers, the hole thing is mostly a huge battle scene at Helms Deep right? But in the book the battle isn't more than a chapter! However The battle on The Pelennor Fields is much much bigger in the book! Oh the hell is PJ going to make room for the battle in the movie? I mean it's huge compared to Helms Deep! If you ask me he'll have to make Lord of The Ring 4 just to make it all fit... anyone got an idea? Should he just cut most of the battle or what?

[Meela]

Welcome <P>Yes, Helms Deep seemed rather long, but I'm sure someone said it was actually only a small amount of time, just broken up which made it seem longer.<P>I think Pelennor will be tackled in much the same way. There's no way they could stretch it all to two movies. They can manage to squeeze it all into 3 hours or so.

[The_Hand]

Your right of course, but I still wonder how on earth they are going to get is all in one movie since they cut the last one so early... I think The Two Towers should have ended like the book. That's better, but I guess people who hadn't read the book would be pretty mad they did that!!

[HCIsland]

I don't think it will be a problem.<P>Count the pages, remembering there will be no Scouring of the Shire. There's less pages to cover then there was from Fellowship minus The Old Forest, Tom Bombadil and The Barrow Downs.<P>As well, the Helm's Deep chapter was mostly expository which is short to write, long to show. If you watch the battle of Helm's Deep it follows the book fairly closely as to the course of the battle, if not the actual participants (ie. Eomer not being there and elves that are).<P>Pelennor is less about the strategies and the course of the battle at large and more about individual conflicts: Eowyn and The Witch King, Pippin and Denethor, Gandalf at the Gates, and thus will be quicker to show as PJ jumps from one scene to the other.<P>Return of the King is the shortest book once the appendices are taken out. Like I said, count the pages.<P>H.C.

[Aragost]

I agree, Return of the King is almost a third as short as the other two books. It will be easy to fit everything in within three hours.

[The_Hand]

You know your right... But I still think they should have cut The Two Towers like the book because now there is even less room for everything in Return of The King.

[Idunn]

I don't see it quite like you do. I mean counting pages. It's rather the importance and a number of events that are to be presented. Not to mention the way in which some of them should be shown on silver screen. Think of Shelob's Lair. If you wish to create the proper, frigtening atmosphere, you need to have your heros hanging around half-blinded in the darkness, before you show the monster itself. Which takes time.<BR>That's why I say that there won't be enough time to present everything thoroughly in the third film.<BR>Nevertheless, PJ has all the material recorded, so let's hope that he has a reasonable vision of what will be in the third part. (I'm especially interested how he is going to state clerly that the Pellenor Battle was much more important and bigger than Helm's Deep, when the latter lasted about twenty minutes.)Or we may be disappointed.

[HCIsland]

If your expecting PJ to weigh events based upon their historical significance than you will be disappointed.<P>Helm's Deep was what he chose as the climax of the second movie while Pelennor is not the climax of the third. It therefor will not get the same weight whether you measure it by raw minutes or emotional impact.<P>Now if you want to look at events to portray, let's look at what Frodo has to do in RotK, afterall, ultimately this story is about him. There's Sam's rescue of Frodo from Cirith Ungol and then they spend a lot of time marching across Gorgoroth in orc clothing until they get Mount Doom for an exciting climax. PJ is right when he says there is not enough here for Frodo and Sam's story to hold up in the film against the adventures of the rest of the cast. Like in Two Towers, Frodo and Sam would be reduced to the B-plot. This shouldn't happen.<P>Tolkien solved this by seperating the two story lines and telling us Frodo and Sam's journey only after all the rest of the events which is an option that clearly wouldn't work as well in the film.<P>I think putting Shelob into RotK was a good decision. It will be a great punch to start the next movie with, showing the audience immediately what the A plot is. To me Shelob seems more a part of the third story just as Boromir's death is more a part of the first story (even though it is actually the first chapter of TTT).<P>I don't think we should be so slavish as to where these movies should end and begin. Tolkien conceived of LotR as a single novel and it was only presented as three seperate books on the insistence of the publisher.<P>H.C.<p>[ June 15, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[The_Hand]

You know I think that I have been looking at this whole problem the wrong way. Even though the movie is based as much as possible on the books, I think we should stop seeing the movie as an extension of the book. Stop complaining what's been cut or the characters arn't exactly as read and see the movie as it should be seen: As a really great and wonderfull movie! That portrayes Middle-Earth in the only way possible for a movie... the best way... Am I right or not?

[Duncariel]

Wow, it has come down to counting pages. Amazing. <P>Nonetheless, I have to agree with you on some points (i.e. elves and Eomer). From what I have read in the book, most of the Battle of Pelennor includes Mount Doom, and the ceremonies after it is won. If they narrow it down a bit, it should come out quite nicely. Considering PJ's way of blowing up my favorite parts, at least somewhat nicely.