:( Why does playing Wolf work with Fea and not me.

I already explained that I found the situation more than hilarious and though made the mistake of thinking that you were laughing with me and not at me. Why would I ever admit being a Wolf and let it be at that, only realising many hours later that maybe they did in fact take it seriously?

I demand some sincere thanks from Lommy and Brinniel after this game.

You really suit your roles. If you can't be narrow-minded about the social structure, you have to turn your narrow-mindness to something else or else you suffocate.

:p

:D

Sorry, after having said that I have little hope of you retracting your votes, but the situation just required that.

Good luck Noggie, chosing whom you protect next Night.

Think of the following Volo.

Were you innocent you would be outraged, confused, desperate...

You would ask how is this possible that the gifteds have got it wrong? Has Gil given the Super Scientist misinformation? Is there a secret in the game set up in a way that the roles we were told are not the ones there actually exist and there is some great evil going on behind the curtains? You would ask if we lie about your innocense and why on earth are we doing it? You would in a word challenge our knowledge about your role.

But I have seen almost nothing of this innocent reaction from you. On the contrary first you confessed your henchmanship and then after a long pause tried to defend yourself by this joking-hypotheses. Even if the main reason of playing ww is having fun it's pretty hard to imagine people jokingly voting or confessing in this kind of situation.

So your own actions nailed you my friend. Had you been an innocent and thinking of Legate's announcement as a joke you would have included a disclaimer of some sort to your joking confession and not left your confession to stand as your last word for 6½ hours...

And I can see quite clearly where you are coming from right now. After your initial confession you later saw certain lines in the discussion like:
And started to wonder the actual scientific experiments... now could it be that you were not definitively nailed as yet? Maybe Legate had experimented with Mac and not you the previous Night? So maybe we didn't actually know you're evil but just tested you? So there might be a chance to try and make us doubt your guilt after all?

Based on what I said above I see no reason to retract my vote Volo even though it's sad that a nice game ends this soon.

I really did believe that it was joke, that Legate did dream of me and wanted to confuse me. But he didn't dream of me, because I'm innocent. I think that me knowing that he didn't dream of me is a sign itself that I'm not lying now.

I didn't vote Brinniel jokingly. I voted already then rather jokingly, but the vote was meant for her, because of the stated reasons.

Why am I not outraged, confused or desperate.
I'm not outraged in WW, and anyway did being outraged help Lommy. It isn't a sign of an innocent. My post-frenzies don't depend on my role, but I'd say that I've been most outraged when I was a Wolf and in a tight spot talking about Oddwen's game here. Then again, I was just as frenzied in Jenny's game when innocent, and got lynched for it.
Confused, well, I have been confused with the rules, but I don't believe that Legate dreamt of me and got wrong information.
Desperate? Oh, I am desperate. I just can't think of anything that would prove my innocence better than what I've already said. I could come with many ideas why I'm innocent, but just as well I could come with many points why you or Legate are wolves, or Brinniel is an assassin, or anything else, but they wouldn't be convincing, would they?

I think a true confession is a spoiler of WW, and sigh every time somebody confesses (except for Menel's confession in Valier's game).
Keep this in mind in future games.

Ok, I'll tell one of my main points in a clearer way.
I defended Lommy with risking my own health instead of staying low, even after it was rather clear that she would be lynched, unlike Brinniel who by the time moved from here "ignore partner" to "stay with the flow and vote partner" mode.

I brought up the whole subject of henchman double-lynches and even asked Gil about it. If all my posts with the changing moods are a bluff then I'm ready to regard myself the best Wolf, ever. Although I die for them, they simply are better faked than any other bluffs. I'm not that Wolf.

Can't you see how Brinniel's attitude to Lommy is quite typical and book-smart?

Okay, here's the deal.

-- Volo

++ Brinn

So.
Volo ++ Brinniel1
Legate ++ Volo1
Nogrod ++ Volo2
Brinniel ++ Volo3
Nogrod -- Volo2
Nogrod ++ Brinniel2

Which leads to a doublelynch.

Now Legate - if around - may choose to change if he wishes but this way the innocents win for sure.

Brinn has no chance of avoiding the gallows unless Volo wants to let her off the hook.

:D Smart move, somehow I forgot that one. :):)

Long live the co-operation of CIA and KGB! :)

I told you, and how good that you listened enought to be on the sure side! I forgot the double-lynch...

2G is probably quite upset having written my tragical death, needing to add Brinn to it. :D

I'll help digging the drave. For myself, you may throw Brinniel down a cliff. :D

Haha, cutting it a bit close weren't you? ;)

I knew you wouldn't let Volo just die like that and not take me down. I didn't get online until just now, but that was certainly entertaining to read, lol.

I'd go for another round. But I think something should be agreed about players like Xyzzy... :/

Okay, so where's Gil?

I wants to discuss!

Seconded indeed!

Well, what's stopping you, let's discuss.

...*blink*

No ending plot? No role revelations?

I'm confused.

Nogrod - Bodyguard
Legate - Scientist
Xyzzy - Villain
Lommy - Henchm- girl
Brinniel - Henchgirl or do you prefer some other title?
The rest are innocent.

2G is probably very busy so we'll get more in due time.

Well, what can I say about the game? It was too short. Why don't people want to play WW? :S We need new members, and old members back.

I was half-asleep through most of the game so my confusion factor was high. I enjoyed the game. I'm a bit disappointed with the ending, but at least this was a game which ended as a win for my side since a long time, although I can't say that I contributed to it too much.

Shasta's and Menel's early deaths were a bit too early and Xyzzy's absence is a matter that should be discussed at last.

Otherwise I want to congratulate Legate, Mac and Nogrod on catching Lommy. There were none real high-points other that that.

Oh, and Leagate, I'm sad it wasn't a joke.

But actually I and Xyzzy were originally the henchpeople.

Brinn was the villain and she and Xyzzy changed roles at the hour of Xyzzy's death. Didn't you wonder my last words and the pronoun "we"? It was all because I did not know 2G (gotta love that nickname :D) was going to change the roles and I thought the game was over with both henchepeople executed at the end of Day2.

Now I understand your frustration better. :( But I was right with this then. ;)

I did wonder what the we was about as it would have been unfair on Brinn and it was a surprise to me that you were a henchgirl and not the villain, and Brinn and Xyzzy the henchcreatures.

I guess I have to congratulate you villagers. You were quite superior. :D

Brinn - you were awesome as well. I would never have guessed you were the villain. I thought it must be Nogrod or maybe Volo.

Funny, on Night1 I had hard time deciding whether to kill Menel or Legate... :rolleyes:

And I really wasn't that frustrated on Day2 and if I was annoyed with someone, it was myself (and Xyzzy), not any of you. Sorry for being a bit harsh. I realised I was doomed if I continued the way I was playing so I decided to see how you'd react if I went totally crazy. I'm both sad and glad you weren't convinced. I hoped you'd be confused and think I was too touchy even for a wolf. Like Legate said, it was not normal innocent-Lommy -behaviour, but I hoped you'd realise it was not normal guilty-Lommy behaviour either. And it was a way of having fun, I admit. The funniest part of the game for me was when I was attacking Nogrod and I was beginning to be more and more convinced he actually was a wolf - until I realised he can't be because I'm a wolf and my fellow's Xyzzy! :D I think most of your arguments against me were more than reasonable (for example when Mac said why he thought Menel was killed I realised I had subconsciously acted just that way!), but there were some very fishy arguments as well - since when, for example, has Nogrod thought it's wolvish to try to think from a wolf's perspective? *insert some ugly grinning smilie here*

Anyway, thanks for a great game everybody, I think you all did very well. And now that this was such a short game and you certainly want to have some more ww in order to be satisfied, you can sign up to my game as soon as I get the final roles decided and an admin-thread up (which should be in a few days)...

Hey! Me being confused or confusing doesn't mean anything about my role! :somerandomsmiliethatshowsmycurrentmoodofwhichI'mn otcompletelysure: I understand that I can be more than frustrating at times with my nonsense. You can always tell me to shut up, though I'm not sure if that works.

...

Sorry, out of topic. What shall we do about Xyzzy?

I.... uh. Posted twice, I think. I can't remember.

Congrats to the innocents.

Don't be so fast dealing out the roles you know nothing about Susie! :D

I was indeed the Super Scientist and Legate was my bodyguard. We just thought it best to come into the open with roles turned around just in case we'd need to fight someone the next Night. If the henchman would believe our roles the wrong way we could have used it to our advantage.

Happily Xyzzy-villain was killed and we needn't the trick.

So my first experiment was on Lommy who turned out henchman. Just think how I laughed myself when I accused her from trying to think like the wolves do... :p

I also tried to look like a seer on Day2 because Legate had defended himself on the first Night of the game and so could have protected me the next one. Sadly it was Mac who died. For Mac was the target of my second experiment.

We discussed it at length whether to choose Mac or Brinn as my target on N3 as we suspected both of them and finally decided - the villain factor being around as well at that time - that we win more and lose less with Mac not being a baddie than with Brinn.

We also discussed that we could use our retractables to get some information from the remaining people and Legate would go first to "reveal" himself as the scientist... Nicely done Legate! As the Day went further I finally realised that I just had to finish it off.

Hurrah KGB, hurrah CIA! :rolleyes:

And you can imagine the amount of text Legate and I produced via PM's in just the two Nights! It's something like 20 pages of discussion and speculation... And some people say we write lengthy posts in the thread!

But it was a lots of fun indeed! Thanks Legate once again!

And thanks to all you others as well!

It was sad to see Mac die so early - as well as Lommy. You both really made some efforts to engage in the game.

Same goes to Volo in the end. You really made an effort and I do appreciate it - even if your logic is sometimes hard to follow from the first reading and only clarifies after you have posted ten times after that...

Brinn was also nicely between the line of active and concealed - actually contributing a lot for us to chew. Great!

From others I'd hope a bit more active stance to the gaming. Just guessing from oneliners or none at all is frustrating and not exactly playing a game.

And thanks to Gil for an entertaining concept of play. The in-character stuff was pretty fun in this one - and challenging to me at least as I'm myself anything else but a McCarthian conservative...

Yeah, as it has been stated before, I was NOT the henchman (girl, whatever) until Night 3. My last henchman slacked off, so I had to punish him, then do the dirty work myself. :rolleyes:

But really, Gil asked me halfway through Night 3 if I would switch roles to keep the game going and I agreed. Even if xyzzy hadn't been default killed, you guys would've figured out the no-kill came from him.

Day 1

Went quite well actually. Props to Lommy for getting the ball rolling on the idea of lynching a quiet player. Her wolf-on-wolf vote was risky, but it worked for that Day at least. I knew Shasta had to be innocent, so in my evil plotting, I voted him.

I slightly had a hunch that Lommy was evil, so I was careful to avoid her.

Day 2

I still thought Lommy might be a henchgirl, so I didn't want to place any suspicion on her originally. But as I read through the posts and I finally got the chance to write something halfway through the Day, it was pretty much impossible to avoid. Lommy was acting very odd...even for a baddie. I remembered back to one time when she was a wolf, completely calm and innocent-looking; she had totally fooled me. So, I thought perhaps she had fooled me again and played with the idea of her being a gifted. And the only thing I could do without looking completely guilty was add on the pressure. In the next few hours when the votes started coming in, Lommy never revealed, so I ruled out that possibility. Though I was about 90% sure she was a henchgirl, at that point I felt stuck, so I just hopped on the bandwagon like everyone else.

When I reflect back on it, I think I would've played it out differently...like cause a double lynch. After all, I wasn't that concerned about my life. And I definitely would've done it differently if I knew xyzzy was a henchman. But I had Halloween festivities, plus a screenplay due the next day, so I was too tired for cleverness. Sorry Lommy.

Night 3

I got Gil's PM somewhere around 2am that night, I think. I was exhausted trying to finish my homework and the deadline is about 45 minutes after I have to go to class. So unfortunately, I didn't have a lot of time to think through my kill (though surely I did better than xyzzy). I came to the decision that Mac and Nogrod were the gifteds, after going through a phase of suspecting each other, but never going through with their suspicions. Nogrod seemed so obviously gifted to me after Day 2, and I thought there would be a good chance he would be protected. So, I went for Mac hoping that if he was a hunter, he wouldn't hunt me. If I had taken down a gifted, I would've claimed the other role on Day 3 and let the civilians guess which is the right one. Sadly, Mac wasn't a gifted.

Day 3

Unfortunate result for me. I discovered there was no way I could claim giftedness. The only way I could avoid a dead-on revealing was if the Seer dreamt of Mac or xyzzy. So, I was confused when Legate revealed Volo as a henchman. So, was it a joke on him? I was started to think it was more of a joke on me...playing with your prey before actually killing it. I don't know...all I could do was play along.

I went to bed assuming both votes would be switch to me by the time I woke up, and that wasn't so. I started to think Legate and Nogrod would let Volo die, but only to set up a trap for me. After all, I couldn't go after Nogrod because he'd hunt me and Legate probably would be protected. Or maybe since they had the advantage of communicating at Night (something the henchmen never had), they decided to trick me and switch roles. That way, I would go after Legate thinking he was the seer, but in fact he was the bodyguard...then he'd hunt me down.

I knew from early on I was a goner. If I didn't die toDay, I would die later. There really wasn't any way of avoiding it...

Anyways...

Congrats to the villagers, especially our gifted for their excellent work.

And though Lommy, things didn't go so well for you, you made a good effort. I know how it feels to lack a teammate for an entire game...it's quite frustrating. And if I recall correctly, this isn't the first time you were paired as a wolf with xyzzy (that goes all the way back to Menel's game). Though in all fairness, he at least showed up then...

In every game, there always seems to be at least one no-show. I agree it's really frustrating. Perhaps there should be a penalty, like if you are default-killed or a no-show for two games in a row, you are not allowed to play in the next game. That may be harsh, but no-shows can spoil the fun...

This was a good game, though short one. I don't mind smaller games, except it's been that way for sometime now. And now it's taking a month or more to even get games going...that's a bit long. I really hope we can somehow get the interest in WW back up...there's so many players that haven't been around lately.

Lommy- You can count on me to join your game, as long as it isn't running during Thanksgiving weekend (Nov. 21-25 for those who don't know).

(I was trying to figure out why no one else was busy on Day 2 going out and celebrating Halloween...then I realised I was the only American still alive. I don't know how Halloween is celebrated in Europe, but I know it isn't nearly as a big deal as it is in the US. Anyways, that's my excuse for being gone for most of Day 2.. :rolleyes:)

Aha, I was right! And I had suspected you as the Seer, Nogrod. I'm glad I didn't go after you. It's a good thing you changed your vote, because in my suspicion that you two were trying to fool me, I probably would've chosen you, not Legate for my kill...

Agreed. I was laughing throughout Day 1 at all the in-character posts. And Nogrod, you were quite a believable conservative. :p

That was indeed the plan if things would have gone wrong from our point of view...

Well perceived!

But yes I do agree with this unfortunate thing of the henchemen never getting to work as a team. Well it's Lommy's game as the next one and I don't know whether there is anywhere a rule that one needs to take in everyone who wish to sign in. I'd bar Xyzzy at least for a few games if he doesn't show up and both apologise & promise to actually play. A non-poster actually spoils the fun much more effectively than a oneliner-poster which position can in principle be defended as a strategy whether one appreciates it or not.

That was what I was afraid of until I realised there was a path open to secure the win already during the Daytime. Then I just had to sit back and bite my nails for Volo not to make a suicidal retraction from frustration and change his vote to himself while waiting for the deadline to come... :rolleyes:

Thank you, Nogrod and Legate, now I can think I succeeded in something - I KNEW you were bluffing and assuming each other's roles! I KNEW! You were quite transparent there, congratulating each other... :p

Probably the most annoying situation you can get into when playing ww. There's no one to negotiate and speculate with, there's no one you can try to save when you reallaise you're going down whatever you do and lastly, you feel like you're completely alone. Currently, I have the feeling that I never want to be a wolf again. I have been wolf thrice. First time it was my second game ever and I was so nervous typing was difficult 'cos my hands were shaking (really :D) and I ended up a Fenris wolf thanks to my mate Anguirel. Second time I was a wolf with Glirdan and Xyzzy. Neither replied pms on Night1. I took part in Glirdy's lynching on Day1 as that was the wisest thing to do. Night2 Xyzzy failed to send our kill and there was no kill at all. Also, Mac the seer dreamed of me so I got lynched on Day2. And the most ironic thing here was that he didn't dream of me because he found me particularly suspicious, but because he thought that by learning my identity he might be able to guess the identities of some other villagers. Lastly, I was sick and with no net access so I had to play in public libraries sneezing all the time and didn't manage to post a lot. And now, this game, which was more or less a disaster from my part. If someone has a reason to dislike being a wolf, it must be me. :D Well, there's no chance I'll end up a wolf in the next game... *smug smilie*

And I hope I don't sound grudgy/whining, for I actually feel quite good about this game. I sure learned a lot about the art of being a nasty fanged hairy thing... especially what not to do. *if I hadn't exceeded the smiley quota already, I'd add one here*

So no one fell for that? :rolleyes:

But what comes to the congratulating on Day3 that was all meant to put pressure on Volo as we acted like it was game over already. A wolf might have cracked there and confessed - like Volo actually did at first! :confused:

I have to say that this game was very interesting and funny, despite the fact that it was indeed very short. But it was full of these "hidden struggles" and the henchmen did really good job in some parts - Lommy's vote for xyzzy (with this, we almost totally discarded the possibility that xyzzy was a henchman. It is true that a large part of that decision was based on the fact that xyzzy did not appear at all - of course, had he appeared, our reasoning would have been probably very different) and even Brinniel kept the good level of secrecy (probably I would not have thought her a villain, on Day 1 and at the start of Day 2 I thought her being a henchman - which, in fact, is good for a henchman).

Indeed. I was a try, and it could have worked. It was the possible way to minimalize the losses. Apologies once more Volo, but when you reacted the way that you "confessed", that was a moment when it was "clear" that you are a baddie. Why would an innocent confess after he gathered 50% votes from the gifted?

Transparent? :rolleyes:;)
But it did not work at all? Not even on Brinn? Maybe we should have done that the other way around...

I see the protection of myself was not that much waste after all. From what I read (also from Brinniel), there were moments when the game was balancing on the edge. Well, in such a small village it's quite normal, but... It was nice of you that you didn't target me, though. Not as nice against poor Menel (looks like some sort of disease - "Brinnomenelitide", causes players to die in less than two days. Brinn looks almost cured now, however).

If there was anything bad on this game then it was that it was too short, with so few players, and I need to say also a little bit "confusing". Writing simple, clear summary of rules - ALL rules, and FINAL rules - in the first post of the admin thread when the game started would have helped a lot. When the rules change in the course of preparing the game (and this game has been prepared to start for really a long time), it's always better to sum them up.
But the setting was very interesting and the roles were fun. I really enjoyed our little CIA-KGB plot with Nogrod and even the role (although I clinged to the stereotype. No one says or, I believe ever said "Comrade" in every sentence, except maybe Milouš Jakeš...). So thanks Gil for this refreshing setting and a funny game.

i'm glad you all enjoyed it. if you really want i might put a end game plot up but give me a day or two...

i was mostly sad that i didn't get to use my Villain Concept... perhaps another game it can be used. it just makes a Cobbler role more interesting then just being pushed aside.

Well, if it helps...I fell for it at first. Then as I was lying in bed think, I realised there was a possibility you guys had switched roles. Towards the end I wasn't 100% sure, but I think it's safe to say had you guys let me live, there would've been a 75% chance that I chose Nogrod and won.

Not only did you confuse Volo, but you really confused me. I couldn't understand why you had targeted him when I knew he was innocent. Then after Volo stated he thought it was a joke, I then started to think it was a joke on me too. That you two already knew I was guilty, and you guys were just playing around to keep the last Day interesting. So I went to bed, expecting to wake up dead.* But when the retractions didn't come immediately following, I got confused again. I was literally speechless...in my confusion, I didn't want to say anything that would condemn me and be used as an excuse to switch votes, so I thought I ought to just keep my mouth shut, which probably was the best choice. I didn't figure out what was really going on until after the game ended. Smart move killing us both....a guaranteed win for the innocents.

*Waking up dead? Wait...is that even possible? :rolleyes:

Haha, yes I am indeed. At least when it comes to special roles it seems. We'll have to wait and see if I can last as an ordinary...for some reason I do an absolutely horrible job at playing the easiest role...

Wow. Now that was a confusing finish. Kudos to Volo, Nogrod, and Legate!

Actually, I was strongly suspected that Brinniel had a special role from Day One on (I used to be on the same wolf team as well as the same gifted team as her before), but I didn't know for which side, so I kept my mouth shut.

It's a pity that the roles didn't work out as they could have been due to the shortness of the game and the absence of one.

The game setting was hilarious! I think I never wrote two posts entirely in character in any game before. :D When the admin thread was first up a long time ago, my first idea was to play a McCarthy-type conservative. Then I scrolled down and saw that excatly that role was already taken, so I chose an almost opposite role and took revenge by trying to in-character-lynch Nogrod. :p

Hey! Now I remember why I thought it was a joke! It was your votes. They came even before I said anything that would have pointed out me being Wolf, so I decided that Legate dreamt of me and knew my role.

Good try anyway! :)

Oh, that, at the very least, is possible on the Downs!


This is my note from Day1.
Don't ask, I have no idea.

Nah, I voted because you did not respond immediately (it would have to be really fast) and mainly because I thought that a wolf could think that it's not serious if we were just speaking. If we really knew who is the wolf and the game was won for us, it wouldn't make much sense to mess around - of course, unless we wanted to enjoy it.

??? :D

Yes, I gathered that. The plan was good and logical. :)

Exactly. No, wait, that's day2 as Menel's down. Just shows how wrong I was, and how somebody else creapt into my room. Somebody who knows the names of you Downers. Scary, as I haven't been inviting anybody lately.

Although it could have ended terrible if failed. At least the double-lynch was possible (here you see how we think about casualties. The main thing is that we saved the scientist, otherwise - collateral damage).

Well I'm sure CSI and KBG can sacrifice a farmer's daughter or two in order to create a better world for all of us. And like you all know only important people make the world better.