Tons o' Hobbit News
So as has been mentioned elsewhere, PJ and GDT did an hour-long chat and answered a load of questions and revealed a lot about their plans. There has been some speculation in a couple of threads about the content of the new films, but this infodump seemed big enough to merit its own thread.
A few highlights are here. A complete transcript of the chat is available here. Discuss! |
Interesting...
It looks like the Dol Guldur episode indeed will be delt with in the second movie. Quote:
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Thanks for those links, Mister U. How fascinating to see the internet/chat used for such creative public relations. If I remember correctly, Chris Carter of XFiles fame cursed internet communities for hamstringing possibilities on the show but here PJ and GdT seem to be embracing the opportunity to develop a positive rapport. By and large, each director hit the right buttons to keep me mildly interested in what might come of this (although not to relieve my qualms over "Film 2").
GdT's explanation of his "sword and scorcery" comment is about exactly what I would expect from someone with his interest/credentials in traditional fairie. It's also interesting to hear that he "has other plans for R[on] P[erlman]". Coming with his declared interest in the character of Beorn, one wonders . . . . And at least they didn't mention James Earl Jones as a potential candidate for Smaug's voice. All in all, a nice bit of prepping of the fandom. |
It's dangerous to make too much from their
comments, but there seems to be some hope that GdT is interested in being more "faithful" to the books then PJ (especially in TTT and ROTK). I like it that he appears to want to keep elements/events that could have been changed or eliminated, such as his view of talking animals and including all of the dwarves. Marrying his interpretations with PJ's visual success in recreating M-E [U]could[U] lead to a quite successful interpretation. Also, I still like the idea of "aging" Aragorn 10 years to have his initial encounter with Arwen (or alternately) 10-year-old Aragorn chatting with his mum. Or just have Bilbo meet young Aragorn briefly and in the (inevitable) extended dvd Aragorn and his mother chatting- with Agent Elrond? And from the thread "Christopher Tolkien: Kill HOBBIT film" Quote:
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I can't say I'm happy about Aragorn returning as an adult - the whole point of the original book was that the central 'hero' is not a sword-swinging champion but a small hobbit. Also, I don't know how they'll fit him in - Aragorn was a big character in the LOTR films and for him to be included in TH in the same style will require some pretty big alterations to the story (as if Aragorn being an adult wasn't already).
That said, him being there as a child is a good idea. |
I guess I'm not the only one who thought the wargs could be given a different treatment. ;) And it is encouraging to find that GDT is concerned with staying faithful to the book. But that said, I leave you with the following I heard recently...
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This might interest many people: Quote:
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I think that is right. Aragorn is not involved in HOBBIT and if you go by what Del Toro said, probably will not be in the film. I do see him playing a major role in the Gollum story in film 2. And depending on negotiations with Orlando Bloom, I would see a major role for him also. With the character of Legolas, there is no age problem. And since he is a Prince of Mirkwood, he is right in the thick of the action regarding the Necromancer and Dol Guldur. For Legolas to not be involved in such a major event right in his own backyard, seems to defy common sense. However, Bloom is the one actor who really broke out after the LOTR pics in terms of box office appeal and increase in his per picture price. It certainly did not hurt him to be a major player in the other major box office bonanza - the PIRATES trilogy. So Bloom is in the drivers seat and it would not surprise me to see his agent ask for Tom Cruise like wages. The script will probably not even be seriously attempted until the question of which actors they have on board is resolved.
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I'm probably the only one who finds the inclusion of John Howe and Alan Lee to be depressing. :( |
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And someone said something about Ron Perlman? That may be another reason. If there will be actors I actually know and like (like him), then it may be a good reason to really watch the movie in the first place :D And I daresay he would have made a good Beorn, but whatever... |
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I am intrigued by this:
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Kuruharan just wondering
why you find the addition of Alan Lee and John Howe to be depressing? This might be more appropriate as a PM and feel free to return that way if you like (or ignore this as you like :) ) but I would be interested to hear your opinion. I have several artists outside of Lee and Howe that I find interesting and would love to hear your thoughts. Anyone else depressed or looking for new movement on this front?
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The thought of John Howe, Alan Lee, Howard Shore and many of the production crew already being on baord makes me very happy.
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I do have to keep reminding myself that the first movie is book-Hobbit, and the second movie is stuff like Dol Guldor and post-Battle-of-five-armies and maybe some unfinished tales...
Once reminded, I find myself very intrigued by the Second Film. It is borderline fanfiction; the sort of things fanfic writers are challenged by: "but while they were off doing that, what was so-and-so up to?" Of course, we want it to be terribly canonical. But what would YOU write? Depending on what actors came back... what if they get some crazy unexpected combination? (say, for instance) Faramir, Boromir, Gimli, and Arwen, but NOT Viggo and NOT Orlando and NOT Elrond and not Galadriel...? I guess the options are as varied as the characters were... but we could end up with something very unexpected. Kind of fun to imagine. In terms of being an adult: During LOTR Aragorn is 87, right? ... In Movie terms, Frodo went east not-too-long after BIlbo's 111th birthday party, and so 111 - 50 = ummm 61, and so by THAT timeline Aragorn would have been 87 - 61 = ummmm 26. So although that's not Tolkien's original timeline for young Aragorn, it fits the PJ timeline, sort of. Using that PJ timeline, when Bilbo came eastward through Rivendell, Aragorn would have been a strapping starry-eyed 26-year-old fellow. On Bilbo's return trip he would have been 28. He met Arwen when he was twenty, so using PJ's timeline, there's room for an Aragorn-Arwen scene at Rivendell. Remains to be seen what Del Toro will do with the timeline-- Tolkien's or PJ's? One could also wonder whether we will be seeing Pippin and Merry's adolesence. Yeeee. And I wonder whether Tom Bombadil will make it into the second movie, if his actor comes back. Right. Just kidding. |
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I had to smile when I read this. You've hit the nail on the head. For better or worse, and many would say indubitably for worse, move #2 does seem to come perilously close to fanfiction. I have also seen more than one RPG where the "script" had to be rewritten at the last moment when an expected writer failed to materialize. My guess is that GdT would simply go for recasting rather than dumping a character, if he/she was needed. I am looking forward to seeing these Mirkwood Elves! |
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John Howe's vision of Middle earth just doesn't line up well with what Tolkien wrote. His paints his subjects in plate armor and tends to have too much of a High Medieval tone for my taste. It is probably more of a niggle for me than it should be, but I can't seem to help it. Also, his balrogs look like dobermans with bat wings. I like Lee's clothing and armor styles better as they seem to be somewhat more in line with what Tolkien wrote...when you can see the clothing through the haze. Did I mention that Howe's balrogs look like dobermans with *wings*? My favorite Tolkien artist is Ted Nasmith. His landscapes are phenomenal, and while I admit that figures aren't his strongest suit, he clothes and arms them more in a manner which I believe to be consistent with what Tolkien wrote. And his balrogs have no wings. Did I mention that Howe's balrogs look like dobermans with *wings*? |
My personal favorite Tolkien artist even though he only did a few is Michael Kaluta although i don't know about his Legolas.
Ron |
Artists
Anyone have a count of what creatures and landscapes in PJ's LoTR came from Howe or Lee? The Stone Trolls were essentially lifted from an illustration done by Lee, as was Orthanc. Howe's design for the Winged Beasts/Nazgul Steeds was also adopted pretty much wholesale. I wonder if the "camouflaging" Smaug will be closer to Lee's design? Here's a link to the two side-by-side:
http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/dragons.html |
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Artists
I have to agree with Ted Nasmith. I know that he was invited but couldn't contribute due to some personal issues when the LOTR Trilogy was made.
This website shows though Nasmith's influence on the Film Trilogy. It makes a solid case I think to his influence. http://tednasmith.narod.ru/ BTW, I agree that Nasmith's people are lacking but his scenery is beautiful. Though SHE may be to some more cartoonish, I really like Anke Eissman's drawings found at http://www.anke.edoras-art.de/anke_illustration.html. |
AJ, Anke is a great artist - and a she! Some of her artwork reminds me of Alan Lee's watercolors, and she does the best Middle-earth women I've seen yet. (Her Lúthien is beautiful and has a strong character face.) She's fairly young, so she may yet add to an already good reputation and become better known on your side of the Atlantic. I doubt that the Hobbit film producers will add another artist to their roster though.
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Do it Esty, do it, do it!!!! Quote:
There are a couple of pictures, though, that I do find a bit striking. "Leaving the Shire" and the shot of Gandalf's cart is one example. "Gandalf Escapes Upon Gwaihir" and the comparable shot from the movie is another. "The Anger of the Mountain" does seem to serve as inspiration for the shot from the movie. I also agree that the Watcher shots are probably related. I think the Dead Marshes shots are the ones where Nasmith's influence could most strongly be felt...they really are almost identical. The comparison of the Ents wrecking Isengard is nearly that similar too. |
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Re: Anke Eissmann
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Latest from MGM at Cannes
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Indeed - think of the franchise...... |
I am all in favor of HOBBIT as a film. And I like the idea of a film based on the White Councils attack on Dol Guldur. Beyond that...... not so sure.
Here are possible ideas that could really turn it into a thriving franchise for the next forty years. film six: ARAGORN AND ARWEN; TEEN ANGST film seven: THOSE DARN DWARVES film eight: DECORATING MORIA: TRADITIONAL OR CONTEMPORARY? film nine: BROTHERS OF MINAS TIRITH film ten: SLUMLORD - GREY HAVENS INTO CONDOS |
OK, going back to the "tons o Hobbit News" theme: GdT, and his attitudes, versus PJ and his. I have a question which is really about Del Toro, whom I know very little about. (I didn't knkow much about PJ before LOTR movies, either.) Here's the background:
PJ was a maestro at depicting bad guys, badder guys, and very baddest guys. We got orcs, we got ringwraiths, we got trolls and we got balrogs. (Okay one was enough.) We got watchers in the water and we got Shelob and we got a gollumy gollum which drew plenty of deserved admiration. Lots and lots of really bad bad guys. Magnifique. But-- where are the Really Really Good Guys? Look at the books, and there are characters which are So Good-- I mean, Soooo Verrrrry Goooood-- that you almost don't know what to do with 'em. Elrond is so good he shimmers. He's so virtuous he's untouchable. He's angelic. Book Aragorn: annoys people because he is such a goodie two shoes. Galadriel: when you first read the books, did you think she had any bad in her at all? But all three of these guys got (IMO) too humanized by PJ&co. The Ubergoodness got sucked out of them. THey became The Guy Next Door and the PowerHungryQueen next door. Maybe PJ sold more tickets that way, I dunno, but it distressed me deeply. Everybody suddenly had common faults. Normal everyday run-o-the-mill faults. Movie-Elrond walked around with such a scowl that half the fans didn't like him much. Galadriel creeped out people so much that when Gollum said, "we could take them to Her-- She could do it", some folks thought that Gollum was planning on involving Galadriel. Really. My sister watched the movies and really didn't like or enjoy Middle-Earth all that much. Then she read the books, and when she saw the Goodness in Lorien and Rivendell, she saw why I loved it so much, and said, Oh, you enjoyed the movies because you knew that there really was real goodness there-- BECAUSE YOU HAD READ THE BOOKS. Gandalf the Grey was pretty not-bad, but Gandalf the White didn't do it for me. The only PJ movie character that was Truly UberGood All The Time-- besides Sam-- was Arwen. And I suppose you could say Legolas. SO there's the background: PJ was a baddie Maestro but didn't have a touch for Saints and Angels. I'd like to think that TH and Part Two provide an opportunity to see some of that change. But do they really? Thranduil is no Eldrond. Bard... just a man. Certainly the thirteen dwarves have their roaring faults (as they are supposed to) and certainly BIlbo has faults of his own. Who, in The Hobbit, is Ubervirtuous? Where are the characters that really, really shine? Are there any? (I would say Elrond, but he seems doomed to scowl. Would that it were otherwise.) Elves are supposed to be Good People. Though they Tra-La-La-Lally on midsummers day, and Roll-roll-roll thirteen dwarves in barrels down the sluice gate, and turnkey and butler are drunkards, still, they should shine. Will they? All this makes me hope for the return of Legolas and Arwen, even Mid-Hobbit. |
Is it fair of me to hope, beg, and plead that del Toro just conveniently forgets that The Hobbit was essentially a musical?
I'm simply dreading a scene where thirteen dwarves break into a song and dance routine while doing Bilbo's dishes. |
Having seen the musical version of LOTR in Toronto, I dearly hope Del Toro does not even know what the word musical means.
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Some new news
http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article...e-rings-bridge
Rope of Silicon is reporting that TH movie will be just the Hobbit and no bridge between the Hobbit and the LOTR. My thoughts: ... we need two movies to get through the Hobbit and only one to get through all of RotK (and half of TT)? Puh-leeze... Well, you guys do your thing over there in NZ... just don't mess it up! Haha, no pressure... :rolleyes: |
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