Thread: Relative Powers
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Old 03-19-2006, 12:13 AM   #53
Legolas
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The Valaquenta lists the Valar in "due order" which I interpret as 'order of power.' The list splits males and females, so we are left to look elsewhere to decide how the lists look when merged.

Quote:
The names of the Lords in due order are: Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Oromë, Mandos, Lórien, and Tulkas; and the names of the Queens are: Varda, Yavanna, Nienna, Estë, Vairë, Vána, and Nessa. Melkor is counted no longer among the Valar, and his name is not spoken upon Earth.
In your most recent list, this would place Oromë in front of Mandos, and the missing females (Nienna, Estë, Vairë) inbetween Yavanna and Vána.

Lórien would need to be moved up, between Mandos and Tulkas. (He is currently below Tulkas in your list.)

I would also support Ulmo moving above Yavanna and Varda. Ulmo, the third Valar described, is given two full paragraphs in the Valaquenta, immediately following Manwe (undoubtedly the most powerful of the 14) and Varda - no one else is given that much attention.

I do not think Varda is necessarily greater in power than Ulmo. She is mentioned before Ulmo with Manwe, but I think this would be the case anyway, as to include her in Manwe's description since they are together. She is certainly powerful since Melkor "feared her more than all others whom Eru made," but I think this is because of her predisposition against him:
Quote:
Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her,
Anyway, Ulmo's Valaquenta description and every appearance he makes afterwards wreak of power; they are very detailed and the Valaquenta notes that "He is next in might to Manwë." I interpret this to be 'second in power' - the might of the Valar is not physical strength.

Quote:
Ulmo is the Lord of Waters. He is alone. He dwells nowhere long, but moves as he will in all the deep waters about the Earth or under the Earth. He is next in might to Manwë, and before Valinor was made he was closest to him in friendship; but thereafter he went seldom to the councils of the Valar, unless great matters were in debate. For he kept all Arda in thought, and he has no need of any resting-place. Moreover he does not love to walk upon land, and will seldom clothe himself in a body after the manner of his peers. If the Children of Eru beheld him they were filled with a great dread; for the arising of the King of the Sea was terrible, as a mounting wave that strides to the land, with dark helm foam-crested and raiment of mail shimmering from silver down into shadows of green. The trumpets of Manwë are loud, but Ulmo's voice is deep as the deeps of the ocean which he only has seen.

Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he win come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.
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