[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anyway, to get somewhat back to the very original topic, I actually find the second thing Ibri quoted as most interesting for this discussion:

What does it mean - "change of plan"? Does it simply refer in other words to the reshaping of the world (i.e. rather "change of architectonic plans"), or does it get to the core of the problem we are questioning here? Doesn't it seem to you that this quote sounds almost like "there happened an accident"? Perhaps it's the word "occured" that makes me think so: had there been "Eru drowned them all", I would think otherwise. This sounds rather as if it were indeed an "accident", as some were implying here. Most curious, are we getting here the chance to see what Tolkien himself thought about it, or am I reading too much to this?

First, Tolkien's conception of Sauron as inherently good (or not evil) in the beginning does not conflict with pre-Vatican II theology. To infer that Catholicism ever harbored a duality of good and evil (as would be the implication had Sauron or Morgoth been evil in the beginning) would be in error, as that was heretical back to the time of the Arian heresy as well as the Albigenses in the Middle-ages.

Second, I do not believe it was accidental, nor do I think the quote "a catastrophic 'change of plan' occurred" infers any accident whatsoever. What it refers to is a surrender of choice by the Valar to the all-consuming power of Eru. In that remission of leadership, the Valar gave up any and all detente, cajoling or pleas to Numenor for a final verdict by Eru, who chose once and for all to divide Valinor from Arda and inflict the severest of all penalties upon Numenor. But even in his wrath, Eru appears as Yahweh to Noah, saving the faithful under Elendil (which I believe differentiates Atalante from Atlantis as there were no survivors in the Greek tradition).