The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - ‘Strains of Elvish Song and Voices', Bradford Lee Eden

Bêthberry · 03-03-2010, 05:32 PM

Thank you, Pitchwife. I was a bit worried that it would be too spirited but I'm glad you enjoyed it. And gladder that you have replied with such interesting content.

While you are right that Morris could be called a fictionist, my problem with that term was how Eden uses it generally to refer always to the three of Tennyson, Swinburne and Morris. He seems to want to yoke them together when they don't all fit that description, which was my point. I think it would be a better essay had the author differentiated a bit among his three Victorians. Also, the examples Eden supplies of Morris' writing are all from the poetry, so that also sits a bit awkwardly with the descriptor 'fictionist'. Probably too I would be happier with your 'prose romance', which I think is closer to what Morris was doing than 'fictionist.'

You might be surprised to know that you have in your reply here provided more evidence of Morris's influence on Tolkien than Eden supplies in the essay. The one little footnote he supplies on Anderson's Tales Before Tolkien doesn't even mention Morris (although Morris is the only one of these three presented in that book). I know of Morris' influence, but my point is about the method in this essay. At the very least there should be the quotes from the letters which your links supply. It seems that Eden thinks all he needs to do is quote some lines with similar themes and that proves influence. And, in fact, he quotes only from Tennyson, Swinburne and Tolkien in his opening and doesn't even mention Morris as one of his chosen three Victorian fictionists until the fourth paragraph.

Maybe mewlings applies most to Tennyson.

I saw Morris' Kelmscott Chaucer when I was in Ottawa last month and it is a beautiful work of art. It is not a medieval work of course, because the style is different--no medieval book I've ever seen had that much illustration--but as a faithful rendition of beauty in book form it is stunning.

One of the points, too, that I wished Eden had considered is why the later accounts don't have the strong references to music which the earlier versions do. Was Tolkien working against the Victorian medievalism Eden tries to prove--or was that part of the effect of Christopher Tolkien's editing?

03-03-2010, 05:32 PM	#5
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,979	Thank you, Pitchwife. I was a bit worried that it would be too spirited but I'm glad you enjoyed it. And gladder that you have replied with such interesting content. While you are right that Morris could be called a fictionist, my problem with that term was how Eden uses it generally to refer always to the three of Tennyson, Swinburne and Morris. He seems to want to yoke them together when they don't all fit that description, which was my point. I think it would be a better essay had the author differentiated a bit among his three Victorians. Also, the examples Eden supplies of Morris' writing are all from the poetry, so that also sits a bit awkwardly with the descriptor 'fictionist'. Probably too I would be happier with your 'prose romance', which I think is closer to what Morris was doing than 'fictionist.' You might be surprised to know that you have in your reply here provided more evidence of Morris's influence on Tolkien than Eden supplies in the essay. The one little footnote he supplies on Anderson's Tales Before Tolkien doesn't even mention Morris (although Morris is the only one of these three presented in that book). I know of Morris' influence, but my point is about the method in this essay. At the very least there should be the quotes from the letters which your links supply. It seems that Eden thinks all he needs to do is quote some lines with similar themes and that proves influence. And, in fact, he quotes only from Tennyson, Swinburne and Tolkien in his opening and doesn't even mention Morris as one of his chosen three Victorian fictionists until the fourth paragraph. Maybe mewlings applies most to Tennyson. I saw Morris' Kelmscott Chaucer when I was in Ottawa last month and it is a beautiful work of art. It is not a medieval work of course, because the style is different--no medieval book I've ever seen had that much illustration--but as a faithful rendition of beauty in book form it is stunning. One of the points, too, that I wished Eden had considered is why the later accounts don't have the strong references to music which the earlier versions do. Was Tolkien working against the Victorian medievalism Eden tries to prove--or was that part of the effect of Christopher Tolkien's editing? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.