Welcome to the forums! Refreshing to have a new member that is (presumably, based on the name, long coherent post, and the fact that you're not trying to sell anything) not a spam bot.
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Originally Posted by Väinämöinen
But in comparison to Melkor, the Morgoth, he was qualitatively a different Dark Lord altogether. The sheer rapacity of Morgoth cost him the War of the Jewels in the first place. To what extent did Morgoth's character as a Vala, as the most broadly gifted of the Valar, skew his relation to the orcs? He was not a maker like Aule, that enjoyed the making and the thing made, but wanted to be served.
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Hmm...but at the same time, unless my memory serves me wrong, wasn't Morgoth supposed to be quite like Aule? Of course, Aule created the dwarves out of tenderness and impatience, so there are the differences...I believe, personally, that Sauron wouldn't have been opposed to creating things to serve him. He did after all, twist the Nazgul from humans into wraiths and was the former commander of the werewolves in the First Age. The Nazgul seem to me, a more refined version of Morgoth's twisting of elves (or men, Maiar, ect. based on your personal belief and canon), designed to create servants. At the same time, the book orcs seem to have a bit more independence then the Nazgul, able to speak words that are almost anti-Sauron, where as the Nazgul are completely in thrall to him. Morgoth's servants and creations almost seem to have more independence of him then Sauron's do...
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And did not Sauron after the fall of Angband have more utopian desires? He was a Maia of Aule, if my memory serves me well...
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Your memory serves you well.
Sauron, as well as Saruman, were both Maiar of Aule. He did have utopian desires...one of the things I find interesting, is that in spite of the typical portrayal of Tolkien's works as black and white, Tolkien wrote (in one of his letters, which I am too lazy to go look up at 2 a.m...
) that he did not write absolute evil. Thoughts?
To slightly answer the original question, I find that the orcs in the book are not nearly as filthy or barbarian like as the ones in the movie. They do have leaders, and a somewhat complex leadership system...of course, there are the hints of cannibalism, but even those tend to be somewhat complex, such as the banter between Shagrat and Gorbag about who should go in the pot.... Actually, Shagrat seems a good argument against the idea of orcs as barbarians - he talks about the good old days, and clearly shows reasoning skills. Certain orcs, such as Azog seem to have set up kingdoms...while they're not as advanced as the elves or men, they seem to not be on the animal like level from the movie.