I am going to try to do it...

[ninja91]

Now, I dont know where to post this thread, but I think here is good. Sorry if I am wrong!
Anyway, I have begun to write my own fantasy epic, and I have created my own world, and I am currently developing my own ancient human tongue for it. I am also creating a rough orcish language too. My world will be like Arda, although totally different, if you know what I mean. Same style, but completely new areas, continents, lands, etc.
Along the way, I have hit a bit of a roadblock. I want to use the Sindarin language for the elves of my world, and I dont know how well that will go over with the public, or, obviously, my fellow barrow-wights here. Once I have it set out, I would like to get permission to be able to use and apply Sindarin to my world and elves. What do you people think?
Send a private message to me if you have any questions about my (under heavy progress) story, or send an e-mail to me at: chozoninja9@yahoo.com .
I want to see, before I ever get it published (which is years away for I have only written the first couple of chapters) how Tolkien fans would recieve the news, and if they would even support the book.
I myself think it is wonderful, and I have already begun writing a history (kind of like a silmarillion history account) and I have drawn up maps and written entries on each area, place, and land. Gosh, am I excited!
Help me out!

[davem]

Post it as a fanfic. You have no chance of getting it published while Tolkien's work is in copyright. I'm not saying the Tolkien Estate is overly litigious, but ...

(Actually, they are.)

[Nogrod]

Good luck and all my best wishes to your endeavour!

But you are biting kind of a huge thing with you... Maybe after forty years of study and writing we will hear from your piece?

PS. Forget about us realists and keep on writing! Do not let us hinder you on your way! If every genius had listened to the "wise" voices around him/her, there would be a lot less classics in any sort of art or science, or engineering, or anything...

Just even the Caesar had his slave to whisper behind him at the triumvirate the famous: "remember, you are a mortal"... Let us be your slaves here?

[Lalwendë]

I wonder how many of us have tried?

I have.

I created my own 'epic' complete with a kind of cosmological structure, myths, maps, etc when I was a teenager. Over the years though, the basic ideas behind some of the characters and some of the stories have stayed with me, and now the stories all exist within my head and in a fully realised secondary world. I have now got rid of Elves, Dwarves and the like, which is not to say that there are some weird and wonderful creatures, but they are of my own making (and quite disturbing, naturally). An analyst might have a field day with it.

I've even attempted to get it down on paper but there isn't enough time to do it justice. Or I will read what I've written and not be satisfied. I did write a novel - not fantasy, but very peculiar - but it remains beneath the bed. I suspect if I put the effort into this then the same would happen. The old saying 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration is entirely true, which is why I instead worked on my poetry.

[ninja91]

Davem, Nogrod, and Lalwende, thanks for your replies! It can only make my work better. If I do post it in the fanfic, it might be too long, so I would have to do it chapter by chapter.
Another thing: I do not think that I will try to use the Sindarin language and apply it to my elves. I have already developed rough languages for the orcs, men, dwarves, and halflings, so I plan on going ahead and creating one for the elves.
Also, I think my plot is pretty good. It just needs fine tuning, so I dont come out looking like a Tolkien plagiarist. Dont worry, my story has nothing to do with rings...
I will post with any new news.
Thanks!
P.S. Lalwende, speaking of poetry, there will be plenty in my story. Songs and spoken legends will definitely be present.

[ninja91]

Oh, yeah, and by the way, if I do post it in the fanfic, or even if it gets published, the working title (for this single epic, not the rest of the works) is The Fangblade Saga .

[narfforc]

Dream, for in that state, whether asleep or awake, you are closer to Faery.


Best of luck.............

[Hookbill the Goomba]

As a bit of a writer myself, I feel I can give a little advice, for my own part...

Firstly, anything that is even remotely at risk of impeaching copyright is probably best removed before moving on. I think its okay to use real languages, perhaps with a small twist, for example in my own works I tend to use Hebrew with small changes made to some words... When I say changes, I mean... well, here are a few examples:

- Adon (which means 'King') I write as Adôn
- Reeshon (First) I write 'Réshon'

You get the general idea.

Secondly, try and make your work stand out from the crowd in some way. There are literally thousands of fantasy stories out there (well, I have no actual numbers to hand… but there are a lot), most are, as far as I can see, basically the same and are often Lord of the Rings in a different skin and cunningly avoiding copyright infringement. It needs something that will set it apart from others and distinguish itself in a new and interesting way.

Thirdly, getting published is insanely difficult unless you know the right people and all that. Publishers often demand that you have an agent before they even consider looking in the general direction of your manuscript. And Agents will rarely accept unsolicited texts. So you see the problem?

Fourthly, before submitting your work to anyone, give it a good revise. Then another. Then a third and forth. In fact, revise it a good many times! I found that a big help. You begin to develop your characters more that way and put more subtlety and all that stuff into it.

Hope that was helpful, but it was only based on what I myself have experienced and witnessed.

[ninja91]

Well, Hookbill, thank you for the advice. You are right; there is more trouble than it is worth trying to get the rights to Sindarin, so, I might as well develop a completely new elvish language. Plus, it is the thrill of creating something new, to me at least.

[alatar]

Good luck with your work.

And I hope that you're able to maintain the enthusiasm, as you seem to be in for a long haul. Note that I be on that long list of people that was going to write the next big epic, but after a few chapters I got distracted, got bogged down in a word or two, then never quite found the time...the fire may be out but there's still a pilot light in there somewhere (if you understand what that is).

So do what you can, try to finish even a small bite or two, and make time for it each day/week and stick to it.

And let the Tolkien stuff go, as stated above. Make your own languages, characters, places, etc, and let the next generation face your team of lawyers...

[Lalwendë]

You only have to look at some of the great work coming out to realise that fantasy does not have to copy what Tolkien did! You don't always have to have Elves, Wizards, Dragons etc if you don't want them.

I'd always recommend some reading to see what others have achieved. Here's an entirely unbiased list of some of my faves.

Try Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell for a truly weird and immense work that combines fantasy with the late 18th Century - plenty of politics and military detail.

Sandman comics show just how far you can go, how extensive and complex a work you can create without necessarily creating languages and maps. These also show that you can deal with gender politics and other modern and adult issues in fantasy.

Harry Potter of course has great plotlines whatever other readers think about Rowling. It also combines the modern world with the fantastic.

Mists Of Avalon is a long and complex novel which weaves a more Pagan take on the Arthurian legends, together with a lot of 'psychological' insights.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm going to give advice contrary to whatever everyone else is saying. Don't feel like you have to censor out the Sindarin immediately. Don't hack into your story to pull out anything that looks like it might not fly. Not until you finish it. If you censor yourself early on, worrying about what's already been written, you'll lose you initiative and start writing averagely. You don't want average.

Write what feels right for your story. Don't bother editing. Just let the story out. You can always edit later.

And ignore every single person that mumbles the words "you can't". What they mean to say is that they can't. They'll only cripple you with uncertainty if you listen.

And no. I'm not writing an epic. I'm writing a macabre pseudo-realist novel set in modern times. *shrug* I'm not ready for fantasy yet.

And above all, good luck!

[Folwren]

Good luck! Even if you don't end up getting it published, keep writing. In time, you may well write something that can get published, even if it isn't what you have in mind now. I think writing is one of the best things a person can do to escape the bounds of regular, boring, busy life.

I've been working on stories in my own world for four years now and have written several stories. Only one of them, which I have just now finished, is possibly worthy of getting published, but I've only now begun thinking about it, so there's yet a long road to walk. What's more, I didn't have any other languages in it, and it only involves Men, and I think it would be more difficult to publish if it did have all that in it.

Keep working on it!

-- Folwren

[ninja91]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for all the advice! As I said before, I have decided to create a new language instead of using Tolkien's Sindarin elvish. And, as a sidenote, wizards wont be entirely present like Gandalf and Saruman were. Any person who is powerful enough will be able to call upon some magic: it just depends how powerful the user is. Remember, if there are any questions, let me know.

[Lalwendë]

Making words for a new language of your own isn't as scary as it seems. Tolkien was a language expert so it might never be as complex as his, but the basics of what he did was to look at existing and ancient words and create new words from roots. Also he would 'retrieve' an old word and give it new/alternate meaning - e.g. how Ent, Old English for Giant was used.

The difference might be that while Tolkien created the story so he could use his invented languages, you might be inventing a language to fit the tale; not all that difficult if you do it while you are writing, and of course we have the benefit of computers for handy cross-referencing.

It might be worth having a look at some other books where writers have created new words, e.g. 1984 and A Clockwork Orange.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I love the Downs. People here don't call you weird when you tell them you're writing fantasy. Sometimes, encouragement can be the most important thing.

[ninja91]

Eomer of the Rohirrim: Too True.
And to Lalwende, creating languages (even though I am no language expert) is definitely a different, but fun, experience. Making writing, pronunciation rules and stuff is neat. Anyway, I will try to post my first (very rough draft) chapter in the fanfic soon. Look for The Fangblade Saga on a bookshelf near you...in 10, 15 years or so