How did Saruman know who Gimli was ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Mouth of Sauron · 09-25-2009, 02:03 PM

At the Orthanc encounter between Gandalf and Saruman, when Gimli interjected during the exchange, Saruman said "Peace.... I do not speak to you yet, Gimli Gloin's son".

How did Saruman know who Gimli was ?

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 09-25-2009, 02:16 PM

I would think that he would either know because of his use of the Palantir, or Gandalf told him. Either that or he knew Gloin. That could be a possibility...

Inziladun · 09-25-2009, 02:33 PM

Also, it appears Saruman had been spying on Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli previously.

Quote:

Suddenly Gimli looked up, and there just on the edge of the firelight stood an old bent man, leaning on a staff, and wrapped in a great cloak; his wide-brimmed hat was pulled down over his eyes.

TTT The Riders of Rohan

Gandalf, of course, later denied the old man they had seen was he, saying they must have seen Saruman.

Pitchwife · 09-25-2009, 02:38 PM

I suppose Wormtongue told him, though it's not quite clear how Wormie knew who Gimli's father was. When Gandalf introduced his companions on their arrival in Edoras, he only referred to Gimli as 'Gimli the Dwarf'. But Gimli himself gave his full name to Éomer when they first met (in The Riders of Rohan), and Éomer may have mentioned it when he reported to the King (presumably in Wormtongue's presence).
(I don't think the Palantir had anything to do with it - unless you suppose its user interface included little pop-ups providing names and biographical information on people seen in the stone when you thought-clicked on them

.)

Legate of Amon Lanc · 09-26-2009, 02:57 AM

Personally, I would think it was only the fact that Saruman encountered them by the Fangorn forest, and then, the news Wormtongue brought. Gandalf says something about Aragorn, later, to Pippin, and I think we can apply a similar pattern to Gimli:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TT, Palantír

It may be that [Sauron] will learn that I was there and stood upon the stairs of Orthanc-with hobbits at my tail. Or that an heir of Elendil lives and stood beside me. If Wormtongue was not deceived by the armour of Rohan, he would remember Aragorn and the title that he claimed.

Aaron · 09-26-2009, 01:43 PM

Gimli was a courageous, hardened warrior. Perhaps tales of him and his lineage reached Isengard?

Inziladun · 09-26-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron

Gimli was a courageous, hardened warrior. Perhaps tales of him and his lineage reached Isengard?

Courageous he certainly was. However, I think he would have been of absolutely no interest to Saruman were it not for his involvement with the Company of the Ring.

Elmo · 09-29-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I suppose Wormtongue told him, though it's not quite clear how Wormie knew who Gimli's father was. When Gandalf introduced his companions on their arrival in Edoras, he only referred to Gimli as 'Gimli the Dwarf'. But Gimli himself gave his full name to Éomer when they first met (in The Riders of Rohan), and Éomer may have mentioned it when he reported to the King (presumably in Wormtongue's presence).
(I don't think the Palantir had anything to do with it - unless you suppose its user interface included little pop-ups providing names and biographical information on people seen in the stone when you thought-clicked on them

.)

I'm not 100% but I don't think a palantir has a sound card installed so you can't hear anything with it so he can't have heard Gimli son of Gloin being spoken with it.

PrinceOfTheHalflings · 09-29-2009, 02:33 PM

Saruman didn't spend all his time in Isengard. We know he visited Minas Tirith and he was part of the White Council ... so he must have attended the meetings. We also know that he participated in the attack on Dol Guldur, so he got around a bit.

I wonder if he'd ever visited Rivendell? Elrond would have had no reason to turn him away.

What I'm saying is - he probably knew of more people than we think! Remember, he was interested in the One Ring ... Bilbo found the Ring and Gloin was one of his companions... it's not inconceivable that Saruman knew something of this, given his interest.

Inziladun · 09-29-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

What I'm saying is - he probably knew of more people than we think! Remember, he was interested in the One Ring ... Bilbo found the Ring and Gloin was one of his companions... it's not inconceivable that Saruman knew something of this, given his interest.

I do think it likely that Saruman knew Gandalf had a plan to eliminate Smaug, but I doubt he knew the details. If he'd been aware Gandalf was leading thirteen Dwarves and a Hobbit to the Lonely Mountain to destroy a dragon, his likely conclusion would have been that old Olórin had finally gone off the deep end.

Saruman probably didn't pay too much attention to Thorin and Company at that time, since he was occupied with getting Sauron out of Dol Guldur. I wouldn't think the names of the Dwarves involved would have been something he would have taken the trouble to learn.

09-25-2009, 02:03 PM	#1
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	How did Saruman know who Gimli was ? At the Orthanc encounter between Gandalf and Saruman, when Gimli interjected during the exchange, Saruman said "Peace.... I do not speak to you yet, Gimli Gloin's son". How did Saruman know who Gimli was ?

09-25-2009, 02:16 PM	#2
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	I would think that he would either know because of his use of the Palantir, or Gandalf told him. Either that or he knew Gloin. That could be a possibility... __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

09-25-2009, 02:38 PM	#4
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	I suppose Wormtongue told him, though it's not quite clear how Wormie knew who Gimli's father was. When Gandalf introduced his companions on their arrival in Edoras, he only referred to Gimli as 'Gimli the Dwarf'. But Gimli himself gave his full name to Éomer when they first met (in The Riders of Rohan), and Éomer may have mentioned it when he reported to the King (presumably in Wormtongue's presence). (I don't think the Palantir had anything to do with it - unless you suppose its user interface included little pop-ups providing names and biographical information on people seen in the stone when you thought-clicked on them.) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

09-26-2009, 01:43 PM	#6
Aaron Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England Posts: 96	Gimli was a courageous, hardened warrior. Perhaps tales of him and his lineage reached Isengard? __________________ Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.

09-29-2009, 02:33 PM	#9
PrinceOfTheHalflings Wight Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 120	Saruman didn't spend all his time in Isengard. We know he visited Minas Tirith and he was part of the White Council ... so he must have attended the meetings. We also know that he participated in the attack on Dol Guldur, so he got around a bit. I wonder if he'd ever visited Rivendell? Elrond would have had no reason to turn him away. What I'm saying is - he probably knew of more people than we think! Remember, he was interested in the One Ring ... Bilbo found the Ring and Gloin was one of his companions... it's not inconceivable that Saruman knew something of this, given his interest.