Enchantment or advancement.

[Lalwendë]

I was kinda enjoying examining how story and magic are intertwined, but science Vs fantasy is just as good a topic so lets pick up on that....

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I wouldn't mind there being a scientifically satisfactory explanation to how the Palantirs work either (not that I am craving for such an explanation).

You can easily find an in-world explanation for how they may work. Tolkien did seem to leave us lots of clues, his brand of 'magic' isn't just this intangible thing, it is fairly coherent.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So what we imagine is tied to what we have experienced. And mind you, most of the "new perspectives" that have really changed our way of looking at the world or which have actually changed our envirovenment come from science. The universality of abstractions, the theory of atoms or that of evolution, or dark matter or whatever you wish. Just mind-boggling ideas that easily make our mythologies look like unimaginative commonplaces - and just continuation of billiontimes used ideas.

Isn't it interesting how physicists seem to coin some of the most poetic language to describe their findings? You could say "Ah, they're all nerds who gre up reading fantasy and sci-fi! No wonder!" but to me it suggests that these discoveries and theories are as close as we humans can come to magic in the real world. I can read an article on Physics and find my mind being blown as much as it is from reading Tolkien or Watchmen or His Dark Materials (and of course Moore and Pullman themselves dabble with a bit of science in their stories) or from watching Doctor Who.

The applied sciences, namely technology, may not be such a pretty thing, and Tolkien thought it was ugly, but theoretical science is beautiful - and I think you can see Tolkien thought so - look at his dabblings with sanwe and world crafting etc.

So...

Originally Posted by Hookbill

I have always felt that scientific explanation often feels very out of place in fantasy. For me, science fiction and fantasy are two different things and I do get annoyed when they are lumped together. I don't deny their similarities, but I do think they work in different ways.

To some extent, science often is the discovery of things ancient and unknown. Especially in terms of cosmology and quantum physics. These are things that have always been true and we are only now learning. But in terms of stories science works in a very different way, I think.

I think it depends on the type of science fiction and the type of fantasy. "We are all post-modern now" as someone said () and there's much more interplay between styles and genres. Take a perfect example of Doctor Who. That's classic sci-fi...or is it? It's also all wrapped up in an incredible mythos. It's also not actually necessary to know how the Tardis or Regeneration works. It just does (unless it has gone into the Time Rift, heh).

I don't mind if they are used together as it's all just fantasy to me, whether it's about wizards or superheroes, and so long as it works well it's fine by me! In general, I do prefer it when something which is more sci-fi takes on fantasy elements than vice versa though (His Dark Materials is a notable exception). That's probably because strict fantasy is really fairy story and as such, the illusion is easily shattered.