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Old 10-20-2004, 01:35 PM   #12
the phantom
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Men came when the sun rose... the sun was born because the trees died... so if Feanor used his sils to keep the trees alive then there would be no men, right?

It seems to me that the trees were supposed to die, and Feanor's refusal to wear his jewels to the feast (which allowed Morgoth to steal them and take them out of reach) ensured that the trees would die and that men would soon awaken.
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and would have served melkor ultimately buy complying to the valar. this would have Allowed morgoth the time to subjugate the world to his will while the valar tarry beyond the boundaries of the mortal world. Melian and Thingol would be overwhelmed thus no beren and luthien no Tuor and no Aragorn.
I agree.
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I feel certain that if the Noldor had stayed home instead of chasing Morgoth and the Silmarils, the Sindar and the Edain would not have thus been doomed.
Why?

When Feanor arrived in Beleriand it was days (maybe hours) away from being conquered. There were two safe places left, with Cirdan and with Thingol- and Cirdan was just about finished when the orcs attacking him were drawn off by Feanor and his sons.

And what chance did Doriath, unaided, have against Morgoth, Sauron, the Balrogs, and their armies of orcs?

And once Doriath is gone, what's left? Roaming dark-elves with crap weapons? I don't think they'd last long. Only the dwarves in their caves would survive, but Morgoth would likely go after them as soon as he was able.
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We can be sure that it was not his plan for the Noldor to rebel against the Valar and go back to Middle-earth
We can be sure? Here's what Tolkien said-
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If we consider the situation after the escape of Morgoth and the reëstablishment of his abode in Middle-earth, we shall see that the heroic Noldor were the best possible weapon with which to keep Morgoth at bay, virtually besieged, and at any rate fully occupied, on the northern fringe of Middle-earth without provoking him to a frenzy of nihilistic destruction. And in the meanwhile, Men, or the best elements in Mankind, shaking off his shadow, came into contact with a people who had actually seen and experienced the Blessed Realm....[at the time of the War of Wrath] Morgoth though locally triumphant had neglected most of Middle-earth during the war; and by it he had in fact been weakened: in power and prestige (he had lost and failed to recover one of the Silmarils), and above all in mind...he had fallen to like being a tyrant king with conquered slaves, and vast obedient armies.
It appears that is was the best plan for the Noldor to chase Morgoth.
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I don't believe the Valar would neglect them and leave them to the tyranny and oppression of the Great Enemy
Why? The Valar don't have a good track record when it comes to dealing with Morgoth. This was what Tolkien said about the first time Melkor was captured by the Valar-
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Eru 'accepted and ratified the position' - though making it plain to Manwë that the Valar should have contested Melkor's domination of Middle-earth far earlier, and that they had lacked estel
As you can see, the Valar have a history of dragging their feet. All of Middle-Earth probably would've been under Morgoth's foot by the time they decided to do something. Don't put so much faith in the Valar and Manwe. Tolkien said this about Manwe-
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[Manwë] has become engrossed (partly out of sheer fear of Melkor, partly out of desire to control him) in amendment, healing, re-ordering-- even "keeping the status quo"- to the loss of all creative power, and even to weakness in dealing with difficult and perilous situations.
Hee hee. If you want to put absolute faith in someone who has "weakness in dealing with difficult and perilous situations", then go ahead, but don't expect me to agree.
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