Tolkien's final First Age timeline

[Arvegil145]

First of, I have to apologize for my tone in the above post - I haven't slept for two days and for some reason decided to post here. Not that any of that is an excuse.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I feel like there were lots of things not written about by Tolkien post-AAm/GA; that doesn't mean they were discarded. The Lamps were always something of an afterthought to the Trees; it's entirely possible Tolkien was simply waiting until he had the "round-world Trees" story straightened out before bothering to think about the Lamps.

My biggest problem with the Lamps post-'Round World legendarium' (other than their complete absence) is their necessity.

There was a clear purpose behind them in the 'Flat World legendarium' - they were the original light source on Arda back then: however, since the Sun existed from the beginning in Tolkien's later framework, there is obviously no need for a light source other than the Sun, except in the sense of said light containing the 'light of Iluvatar' that originally was contained within the Sun.

That is where the Two Trees come into focus - their role in the RW legendarium isn't that of a light source per se, but as a last vestige of that 'holy' light, which later on is in turn only preserved in the silmarils.

Problem is, the Trees were never intended to be the original source of light illuminating the whole world, even in the earliest legendarium - the Lamps filled that purpose in the pre-RW legendarium. But then, Tolkien changed his mind and made the Sun into the original source of light instead (assuming the same role that the Lamps had previously), with the Trees being created much later to preserve the 'holy' light which the Sun originally had.

In other words, from a story-telling perspective, the Sun replaced the Lamps in its primary role as the original main source of light on Arda (or Ambar in the RW version).

Or to put it this way:

1) 'Flat World legendarium': Lamps > Trees > Sun and Moon/Silmarils

2) 'Round World legendarium' (concerning the carriers of the 'holy' light): Sun > Trees > Silmarils

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I mean, Tolkien devoted whole calendars to the phases of the moon, it's entirely possible the seasonal rising of Orion and how it changes over millennia was also on his mind. However, in my view the later explicit 16 000 years quote trumps any possible unrecorded workings on that score.

Not sure if you missed it, but I did put together a bare-bones Unified Timeline, from the entry of the Valar into Arda to the discovery of the Notion Club Papers.

Yeah, I was being embarrassingly flippant about the whole situation regarding 'astronomy'.


In regards to your timeline, I missed it - I'll check it out.