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Old 03-21-2004, 07:32 PM   #1
Orcrist
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morgoth and melkor are the same person right? sorry i still have to read the silmarillion
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Old 03-21-2004, 09:51 PM   #2
Nilpaurion Felagund
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Pipe Yes, Orcrist, they are the same...

Quote:
And Ar-Pharazôn said: "Who is this Lord of Darkness?"
Then...Sauron spoke to the King...saying: "...his name is Melkor..."

(The Silmarillion, Akallabęth - emphasis mine)
Sauron had more purpose for Morgoth outside Arda than in it. Very, very clever...

So still, Sauron wants Morgoth where he is, not running wild all over Middle-earth. It could very well wreck his plans.
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Old 04-09-2004, 04:35 AM   #3
doug*platypus
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First of all, I don't believe that Sauron actually needed Morgoth to return. He was in a pretty good position throughout the Second and Third Ages. True, he did need to create the One Ring, which eventually provided the means to destroy him, but it was only at the very end that this weakness was exploited. Sauron did not have to deal with the foes that Morgoth had in the First Age: heroes like Fingolfin, Beren, Húrin, Finrod by the dozens, and Noldor by the thousands (at least). Sauron was more than up to the challenge of dominating men, through the use of both other men and fearsome spirits such as the Nazgűl, and there were relatively few powerful Eldar to oppose him.

Secondly, I don't believe Sauron had the loyalty to feel an obligation to release his (former?) master. In the example of Ossë and Ulmo we see the nature of the relationship between the Valar and their Maiar. It is not one of complete servitude or devotion, at least not in all instances. Curumo and Sauron both defied Aulë, and even Olórin was not completely faithful to Lórien, preferring to consort with Nienna instead.

So my answer is NO, Sauron would not have released Morgoth from the Void, and had no intention of trying. And I bet that's the first thing Morgoth brings up when they meet again after Sauron's departure from Middle-Earth! That is where Sauron was sent, right?
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Old 04-09-2004, 05:46 AM   #4
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We can only assume that Sauron was sent to the void after his downfall. Saruman too. but that has been discussed elsewhere.

As you say, If Sauron was sent to the void, he would first deal with Saurman's tertiary (This is all assuming that they were al sent together into the void) and then would he would have to worry about Melkor's judgement on him. So this whole topic is based on the assumption that Sauron could bring Melko back, so he would have to suffer the consequences that Melkor would throw at him (That’s if there is any thing to throw in the void). Although, If sauron had realised that Frodo was bout to destroy the ring and there was nothing he could do about it, he may have brought Melkor back as a last resort.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:30 AM   #5
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Two points:

1. Sauron believed himself to be actual reincarnation of Morgoth by the end.
2. As both him and Saruman were the maiar of Arda - i.e. under same restrictions as Valar (so bound to the world until its end), they were not thurst into the void (for it is special act, as is the case with Morgoth) after their death, but simply dissolved, and degenerated down to the ghost level
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:04 PM   #6
ArathorofBarahir
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OH absolutely! If Sauron had the power he would have released Melkor from the void without even thinking about it. Because once he did the two would have been invincible.
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:31 AM   #7
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But how would it be possible for Sauron to release Morgoth? Could a Maia change the doings of the Valar? I thought the Valar was supposed to be superior to the Maiar. So if Sauron would or would not release Morgoth doesn't matter in my opinion.
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