úmëa ér uilë - Evil still lives? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

symestreem · 03-29-2004, 01:34 PM

The steeds of the Nazgul had no feathers or scales, but naked hide. Their description differs somewhat from that of a dragon. Also, would Legolas have been able to shoot a dragon? A young one perhaps, which is what the steeds would have had to been because of their size. But if the steeds are dragons, then there are no more, because these creatures are the 'last untimely brood'. Also, if they were dragons then they were winged but fireless. Were there any like that? Did the cold-drakes have wings?
Personally, I think that they are more likely to be one of Morgoth's creatures that he released. RotK says that the beast was perhaps 'a creature of an older world... whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day...' Who else was releasing monsters in the First Age?
If they are Morgoth's creatures, are they evil any more than the horses are? Don't you have to have awareness before you can be evil?

Saraphim · 03-29-2004, 04:43 PM

If the winged steeds of the Nazgul were dragons, cold-drakes, ect, Tolkien would have named them as such. Instead, he used simply adjective-names to describe them, showin that they were unnamed, or had a long-forgotten name.

Voralphion · 03-29-2004, 06:15 PM

Eowyn killed the fell beast ridden by the Witch-King by cutting off its head. If it were a dragon this would not have been possible as dragons had strong scales that served as armour over their whole body, except their bellies. If it was a dragon, her sword would've just bounced off. I think Tolkien said in one of his letters that the fell beasts were a pterosaur like creature.

Hookbill the Goomba · 03-30-2004, 12:01 PM

I think we are going off topic.

What I think the question is this; in the time after Lotr were there any Spirits that would be prepared to take on Sauron's Mantle? Look at the Barrow downs (Don’t say "I already am" and start thinking your some kind of comic genius) There were evil spirits there, how do we know that Sauron as a Necromancer rose some of the Evil things bread by Melkor? And The Witch King Of angmar, he was a necromancer too want he?

Saraphim · 03-30-2004, 05:38 PM

Well, all the Nazgul were destroyed when Sauron fell, since they too were tied to the Ring, but you make a point that I haven't thought about, and I wonder why, because it has to do with my entire social life. The Barrow Wights!

I suppose I always assumed they faded with Sauron, but they were created from the uncontented spirits of Arnorian warriors/kings, weren't they? So perhaps there was more than just evil contained in the hearts of men.

But it's a moot point, since the Wights were created from the evil in the hearts of men anyway.

03-29-2004, 04:43 PM	#2
Saraphim Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of freezing. Posts: 404	If the winged steeds of the Nazgul were dragons, cold-drakes, ect, Tolkien would have named them as such. Instead, he used simply adjective-names to describe them, showin that they were unnamed, or had a long-forgotten name. __________________ I drink Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters! ~ Always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.

03-29-2004, 06:15 PM	#3
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	Eowyn killed the fell beast ridden by the Witch-King by cutting off its head. If it were a dragon this would not have been possible as dragons had strong scales that served as armour over their whole body, except their bellies. If it was a dragon, her sword would've just bounced off. I think Tolkien said in one of his letters that the fell beasts were a pterosaur like creature. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

03-30-2004, 12:01 PM	#4
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	I think we are going off topic. What I think the question is this; in the time after Lotr were there any Spirits that would be prepared to take on Sauron's Mantle? Look at the Barrow downs (Don’t say "I already am" and start thinking your some kind of comic genius) There were evil spirits there, how do we know that Sauron as a Necromancer rose some of the Evil things bread by Melkor? And The Witch King Of angmar, he was a necromancer too want he? __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket...

03-30-2004, 05:38 PM	#5
Saraphim Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The other side of freezing. Posts: 404	Well, all the Nazgul were destroyed when Sauron fell, since they too were tied to the Ring, but you make a point that I haven't thought about, and I wonder why, because it has to do with my entire social life. The Barrow Wights! I suppose I always assumed they faded with Sauron, but they were created from the uncontented spirits of Arnorian warriors/kings, weren't they? So perhaps there was more than just evil contained in the hearts of men. But it's a moot point, since the Wights were created from the evil in the hearts of men anyway. __________________ I drink Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters! ~ Always remember: pillage BEFORE you burn.

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03-29-2004, 01:34 PM	#1
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	The steeds of the Nazgul had no feathers or scales, but naked hide. Their description differs somewhat from that of a dragon. Also, would Legolas have been able to shoot a dragon? A young one perhaps, which is what the steeds would have had to been because of their size. But if the steeds are dragons, then there are no more, because these creatures are the 'last untimely brood'. Also, if they were dragons then they were winged but fireless. Were there any like that? Did the cold-drakes have wings? Personally, I think that they are more likely to be one of Morgoth's creatures that he released. RotK says that the beast was perhaps 'a creature of an older world... whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day...' Who else was releasing monsters in the First Age? If they are Morgoth's creatures, are they evil any more than the horses are? Don't you have to have awareness before you can be evil?