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Old 03-30-2004, 01:30 PM   #1
Luthien_ Tinuviel
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Not quite.....

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In two words: Pride kills.
Exactly. Thus the lesson of almost all of Tolkien's works: humility.

It's not the power that corrupts. Gandalf had tremendous power, and remained uncorrupted, simply because he was humble. He recognized the fact that even with his immense power, he faced trials and challenges that he might not have been able to overcome. He had the humility to allow such a one as Denethor to treat him as an inferior, even though he was much Denethor's superior in wisdom alone, to say the least.

Those who are wise may be corrupted, those who are simple may be corrupted, those who are powerful may be corrupted, those who are weak may be corrupted. We have examples of all of these. Both of Elenrod's models of evil stem from the same source: overriding pride, and the desire to elevate oneself. All of the villains in Tolkien's works have become evil through the lust for honor and glory not due to them. Morgoth wanted to be as great as Ilúvatar, Sauron wanted to be as great as Morgoth, even Gollum desired greatness (his speech about being "The Gollum", for example). Those who remained good and righteous are those who remained humble- Sam, Merry, Aragorn, etc. They recognized that their abilities should be used for the good of others, not to further themselves, and they did not consider themselves to be any better than they were, if that.

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Although, one does wonder, how did [Gandalf] resist the temptation to turn to Evil?
The answer is quite simple: humility.
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Old 03-31-2004, 01:19 AM   #2
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It would seem that being humble helps resist the temptation of becoming Evil. Thinking of Gollum's little speech about "Lord Sméagol" shows that he wanted the power; this would have been why the ring had such a hold over him. Even Sam was tempted by it in that he visualised himself as the savoir of the age, yet his humble roots as a gardener helped him to resist this idea. So it would seem that power did not corrupt those whom were humble. Aragorn himself did not originally want to become king, perhaps when he heard Boromirs dream he accepted that it was decided by fate or something that he was to go to Minas Tirith with the sword Anduril. But he remained humble because he still saw himself as a humble Ranger of the north.
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Old 03-31-2004, 08:28 AM   #3
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One of the fundaments of Tolkien's belief was displayed to be that 'the first shall be last and the last shall be first.' Which isn't a bad way of stating a rather complicated sociological point of view.

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Old 04-19-2016, 12:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rimbaud View Post
One of the fundaments of Tolkien's belief was displayed to be that 'the first shall be last and the last shall be first.' Which isn't a bad way of stating a rather complicated sociological point of view.
I'd been thinking of starting a thread in a similar vein, before I ran across this oldie.
I would expand the discussion a bit though.

I note that, as some above touched on, the lower one's relative state, the more resistant one seems to pride overall.
Gandalf, part of an undoubtedly 'elite' group, was in some ways the least of them. It was told that he was the last one off the ship, and was physically the weakest-looking. He also had no permanent home, usually a mark of what societies perceive as less stability and sense of purpose. Yet, he was ultimately the only one of the Istari who kept his purpose. His reward was a return home, and who knows what else after he arrived there.

Tuor and Túrin and also interesting in this context.

Túrin was the heir of the House of Hador, reared by no less a personage that Elu Thingol in the Hidden Kingdom, growing up with the status of a prince. He had great pride in himself, and it seems to me that it was that pride that provided Morgoth an easy means to bring about misfortune to Túrin and his kin.

Tuor spent his childhood as a slave, and then, escaping, eked out a vagrant life as a outlaw until he was called by Ulmo to go on an errand, which he unhesitatingly accepted. His lack of pride led him to a reward of reaching Gondolin and marrying Turgon's daughter, and with that act becoming part of a watershed moment in Arda's history by fathering a son with her.

And then there's Aragorn.
He grew up in a similar situation as Túrin: raised by one of the greatest of the Eldar in Middle-earth, the Heir not of a House, but of a Kingdom. One sees a seed of pride in him in ROTK Appendix A, where his meeting with Arwen is told. He goes into that having just learned from Elrond of his heritage, and his "heart was high". Meeting her though, he is abased when she identifies herself, and he sees how much older she is, and greater. I wonder: had he not met Arwen, would Aragorn's worldview and subsequent actions have changed?

So, how much does spending time in a lowly state affect one's sense of pride? Morwen's seems to have increased when she became poor. Is there a pattern, or is it individual randomness?
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