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Old 04-22-2004, 01:30 AM   #1
HerenIstarion
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Two points:

1. Sauron believed himself to be actual reincarnation of Morgoth by the end.
2. As both him and Saruman were the maiar of Arda - i.e. under same restrictions as Valar (so bound to the world until its end), they were not thurst into the void (for it is special act, as is the case with Morgoth) after their death, but simply dissolved, and degenerated down to the ghost level
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:04 PM   #2
ArathorofBarahir
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OH absolutely! If Sauron had the power he would have released Melkor from the void without even thinking about it. Because once he did the two would have been invincible.
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:31 AM   #3
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But how would it be possible for Sauron to release Morgoth? Could a Maia change the doings of the Valar? I thought the Valar was supposed to be superior to the Maiar. So if Sauron would or would not release Morgoth doesn't matter in my opinion.
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Old 04-23-2004, 12:46 PM   #4
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Thorongil, we are speaking hypothetically.

I personally am in two minds about this. On the one hand, Sauron's desire was for power and ruler ship, which was how Morgoth corrupted him. But on the other, If Sauron realised that he could not do the deed on his own he would have released Morgoth.

But as you said, Thorongil, How he would do this we cannot say, perhaps send a Nazgul to kill Earendill or something... But that’s not the point.
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Old 04-23-2004, 04:08 PM   #5
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As to the original question, I don't believe he would've done so. Sauron was pretty fixed upon world domination and as already stated, Morgoth would've seriously upset his agenda.

Even though he learned everything evil from Morgoth, he would've betrayed him. Who's to say he wasn't doing that even when Morgoth was still free?

Could he have done without the Valar knowing?
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:16 PM   #6
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The power to do it . . .

If Sauron possessed the power to go into the void and fetch Morgoth from it, he would have been more powerful than Morgoth, or any of the Valar for that matter, and it would have been inevitable that the Valar would deal with him themselves if he was so mighty.

Personally, I don't think there would be any way Sauron would do anything more than use Morgoth's name. The Men of Numenor were honest and true, and probably not easily deceived. If Sauron wanted to trick Ar-Pharazon into waging war on the Valar he needed a legitimate story to tell him, and what better way to secure the success of his own diabolical plan then to use the name of Melkor, which if they looked, the historians could presumably actually find something on about how he rivalled the Valar in strength and power.

After he was defeated by Huan, Sauron fled into the east and did not show up again until thousands of years later, when he had begun ammassing forces in Mordor. He didn't return, he didn't give Morgoth the news of Beren and Luthien, and when he watched the Valar arrive in the War of Wrath, he nearly repented (but didn't), but didn't join his former master's forces and face utter destruction of his own self. Sauron was a traitor.

And then, he even had the gall to take his fallen former master's title as his own when his pride grew large enough. It's obvious he didn't intend on Morgoth's return - he was the Dark Lord from now on.

And like Hookbill mentioned back in the second post, Sauron didn't even have the same plans as Morgoth. Even when he worked for the lord of anarchy and evil, he was in charge of ordering and keeping everything neat. When he got his own fort after the sack of Minas Tirith on Tol Sirion, it wasn't the house of filth Angband was, it was an eerie isle of sorcery, with werewolves in the dungeons and stalking the fir forests around it.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:32 PM   #7
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I seem to remember a line in the Silmarillion that always made me think each time I read it. Though I cannot remember it exactly, I remember clearly that when the Valar attempted to destroy the temple to Melkor that Sauron had built on Numenor, he was able to stop the lightning set against its roof and the Numenorians "were amazed and thought him a god." This made me wonder, was Sauron powerful enough to halt the will of the Valar? Or was it something much less complex?
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