Who was the most foolish ruler of all?

[elronds_daughter]

I'll second Ar-Pharazon. Though I suppose that anyone could be taken in by really good diplomacy. But it would have to be incredibly good to get anywhere with me.... Not that I'm flaunting that, or anything.

Denathor wasn't the brightest bulb during his last yeras, either, though. But Ar-Pharazon takes the cake, in my opinion.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I'll have to vote Melkor. I do have reasons before you castrate me!

1) He lost most (if not all) his power very early on and became a very weak individual. To try and rule in that state would be folly.

2) His shear pig-headed ness and soberness makes him rash and easily distracted from matters of importance.

3) People would revolt and cast him down eventually.

4) His only real leader qualities are in military strategy. When it comes down to matters of governing, I think he'd be poor.

I believe, if he ever became ruler of anything more than Angband and his other lands, he would soon realise how foolish he'd been. Not that he would admit it as Manwe would say "Ha ha! I was rite! You were wrong Nah, Nah!"

[mormegil]

I would actually say that Fëanor was one of the most foolish leaders. He had great power to influence people and yet he used it to estrange his people from the power he needed to actually accomplish his purpose. Meaning the separating himself from the Valar. He used his influence and power to insight evil deeds, the Kinslaying being one of the most fiendish. Much like Hookbill said of Melkor he is so consumed with himself that he doesn't look to his own people. He led his own in his quest to get his jewels back. He drew a wedge among his followers by abandoning a host of his followers to either return in shame to Aman, stay and die, or attempt to cross Helcaraxë when he needed all the help and support he could get. And let's not forget about that little oath of his and it's wonderful outcomes.

[elronds_daughter]

Hmm... I hadn't thought about Melkor, Hookbill, but you've got a good point.

You too, mormegil. Feanor certainly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer..

[Boromir88]

I would disagree with Denethor. He was a man as Tolkien said became corrupted by politics, but he was quite good at what he did. All the more amazing still remaining to keep sanity (for the most part) while viewing the palantir for 40+, dealing with the death of his wife and son, and his other dying son, as well as seeing his kingdom on the verge of destruction. But, that's just a matter of differing opinions, it's definitely easier to dislike Denethor, then it is to like him.

I would vote Fengel. Just because he wasn't very well liked. He caused strife with his marshal's, his own son hated him so much he went to Gondor and was reluctantly returned back after his father died to take his place. He loved gold, cared nothing for friends. Sounds very stupid to me, and quite foolish.

[Anguirel]

Mormegil, I agree with you somewhat on Feanor, but would add the caveat that he was a brilliant general in times of war, with that crucial one Lionheart-like weakness-lack of self-preservation. I also understand his motives for "cutting himself off from the Valar", as splendidly expressed by him when he answers Manwe's herald. And the Kinslaying, though a terrible thing to initiate, has to be seen in the light of Finwe's death and Feanor's longing for revenge.

I would disagree entirely on Denethor.

It seems to me that we see all of Melkor's humiliations, because he's the baddie. That still doesn't mean we can neglect his achievements-if they can be called that, as they are all negative. Supreme among these for me is his mastery of treachery-twice against Maedhros (including the Nirnaeth), infinitely against Hurin's family, and against Turgon through Maeglin.

Ar-Pharazon is an excellent choice.

I don't actually think much of Helm Hammerhand. Belligerently stirring up racial feuds which led to the near destruction of Rohan.

Earendil, whatever else he was, proved a poor ruler to his people.

But surely Sauron takes the biscuit. I mean-putting his power into a ring? That's just comical...

I like this thread, and will return to it when I have more. Have we already got a positive one? I might ressurect if I find it.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

... with that crucial one Lionheart-like weakness-lack of self-preservation.

His diplomatic skills weren't too hot either.

[Lady_Galadriel]

this is an extremly wonderful topic!

[QUOTE=Anguirel]

But surely Sauron takes the biscuit. I mean-putting his power into a ring? That's just comical...
QUOTE]
i agree... who would put his power into a ring that would eventually fall into the wrong hands and destroy middle earth as we know it?! thats just nuts!