Melkor's depiction by artists: Flawed?

[Elrowen Tinúviel]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Like a Balrog, his body was probably not much more than 10 feet tall. Maybe around 15 on the outside, but certainly no more than that.

Oh, okay. I tend to find the answers to questions such as Melkor and Sauron's size elusive.

Balrogs are about ten feet or so tall? That was one that I've often wondered at... (the movie confused me a little on this) because in the Silmarillion, when Glorfindel fights the Balrog, he stabs it in the heart... therefore they can't be all that tall. When I think of Balrogs, I usually picture them as being huge... and yet that cannot be, for the average height of the Elves is around six feet or so...

-Elrowen

[Lord Melkor]

Well, one can deduce the rough height of Melkor and his servants through logic reasoning . It's safe to assume that Melkor would've been the tallest, being the Dark Lord and all that. Knowing Melkor's personality we can conclude that he would not allow one of his servants to be taller than himself. We also know that Glorfindel fought a Balrog and stabbed him in the stomach or chest and we know that the Balrog of Moria was small enough to attempt to enter the Chamber of Mazarbul so it's obvious that the movie Balrog is too large. My personal estimate is that the average Balrog was probably around 3 meters tall, still enough to tower over any of the Children of Iluvatar. Melkor himself would be even bigger, probably approaching 4 meters. Anything taller that 4 meters and the whole duel between him and Fingolfin will start to take on comedic qualities, with Fingolfin hacking away at Melkor's toes. At 4 meters Melkor would've been twice as tall as Fingolfin, more than enough to stand 'before the King like a tower, iron-crowned, and his vast shield, sable enblazoned, cast a shadow over him like a stormcloud.' Fingolfin would've been able to hit most of Melkors body with his sword, taking the reach of his blade into account. It also means that Melkor's foot is small enough to 'set his left foot upon his neck, and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' If Morgoth was as tall as some artists depict him than 'And Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, face and entire upper body and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' would've been a more accurate desciption of the event.

[Kuruharan]

...but I've never allowed silly things like that to stop me.

It's safe to assume that Melkor would've been the tallest, being the Dark Lord and all that. Knowing Melkor's personality we can conclude that he would not allow one of his servants to be taller than himself.

There is a possible exception to this though. His dragons would have been "larger" than he was. I guess it would be up to the reader's imagination whether a dragon standing on its legs would have been taller. If it was a winged dragon the wings would probably add to the height (even when they are folded).

Now this may just be an exception that proves a rule...

Also, I'm probably not well equipped to discuss dragon sizes and heights because my mental picture of them has evolved considerably. I had originally pictured them as being huge beasts that would tower well above humans and elves when standing on their legs. However, my picture has changed considerably. Due partially to the realization that this type of dragon would be ill-suited to the underground life that dragons preferred and partially to seeing Tolkien's own picture of Smaug they have become decidedly more snake-like and lower to the ground.

(It is kind of hard to disagree with how Tolkien drew Smaug in my own view).

However, I guess it could also depend on where the legs are and the structure of the neck whether a dragon would have been taller than Morgoth.

[Elrowen Tinúviel]

I must admit... sometimes logical reasoning isn't my strongest suit.

Originally Posted by Lord Melkor

Fingolfin would've been able to hit most of Melkors body with his sword, taking the reach of his blade into account.

I completely understand that one.... I'm training in SCA heavy weapons combat, and I've sparred with people two (sometimes three) times my size... reach is insane... with a sword an inch longer (and using your body properly....... haven't quite gotten that down yet) it makes a huge difference!

Originally Posted by Lord Melkor

If Morgoth was as tall as some artists depict him than 'And Morgoth set his left foot upon his neck, face and entire upper body and the weight of it was like a fallen hill.' would've been a more accurate desciption of the event.

That makes for an interesting picture.

-Elrowen

[The Perky Ent]

Behold! My Morgoth Gallery!


Morgoth 1
Morgoth 2
Morgoth 3
Morgoth 4
Morgoth 5

Because of the size of the pics, They're in link format. Anyway, here's my two cents...

Being a big fan of Ulmo, I've always considered Valar around this size:

If that's too big for you, I can put it back in link form! Anyway, I consider Valar being at least over five times the size of a man. Morgoth, in my opinion, is a mixture of many evil and powerful beings. One of them being Ares, the Greek God of war. Ares

I consider Morgoth not far from the appearance of a man, but in an 'evil incarnate' look. The terrible feeling you get from seeing him is probably part of his 'All shall fear me and despair' aura he seems to carry about him. Fingolfin must be the king of neck strength. Clearly we have much to learn from him...

[Ainaserkewen]

While I agree with those examples of yours Perky as being more or less what Morgoth the Terrible looked like in those days of the Elven Wars, I can't help but wonder what his shape was when he was still just a nuissance. Or was he bad from the moment the Vala chose their forms?

And if that was his only form, the evil one, then how did he know what looked evil? How did he know what would frighten men and elves before he had even met them?

[drigel]

Its interesting that none of the portraits shows a face. I'd like to see a face! Or, as an alternative, what actor's face would come the closest to representing Morgoth?

Something "fair and terrible" I'm sure would be the general description, at least for M in the beginning.....

[The Perky Ent]

The second picture of Morgoth has a face, inaccurate though it may be

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Ainaserkewen

While I agree with those examples of yours Perky as being more or less what Morgoth the Terrible looked like in those days of the Elven Wars, I can't help but wonder what his shape was when he was still just a nuissance. Or was he bad from the moment the Vala chose their forms?

But they were able to change their forms, and Morgoth retained that power until he switched to his "Dark King of Utumno" form in Ungoliant's lair.

I imagine that before that he appeared rather like Sauron did to the Elves of Eregion and the people of Numenor: wise and fair.

"Not all that is gold glitters"

or, inversely:

"Not all that glitters is gold"

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Like a Balrog, his body was probably not much more than 10 feet tall. Maybe around 15 on the outside, but certainly no more than that.

Perhaps. I'm not good with foot estimates, but this is how I picture his size. Fingolfin "hewed" his foot, and I imagine the sword went in quite deeply. If you can stick about half a sword in a foot, it must be a rather large foot.

[Yregwyn]

Originally Posted by Elrowen Tinúviel

Oh, okay. I tend to find the answers to questions such as Melkor and Sauron's size elusive.

Balrogs are about ten feet or so tall? That was one that I've often wondered at... (the movie confused me a little on this) because in the Silmarillion, when Glorfindel fights the Balrog, he stabs it in the heart... therefore they can't be all that tall. When I think of Balrogs, I usually picture them as being huge... and yet that cannot be, for the average height of the Elves is around six feet or so...

-Elrowen

It says he stabbed it in the middle with his dirk as it was half again as tall as he was in "The fall of Gondolin". So it was 12' to 14' because elfs are like 6'4" or so, i dont remember where i read the elfs height at the Sil maybe?