21st Century Tolkien

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Hookbill

The more dedicated fans of Tolkien will most certainly continue! I know that the lecturer I will have the pleaser of being taught by next year at University is a Tolkien fan and scholar. I shall first have to discover his opinion on wings...

Are you going to Central Lancashire?

I wonder if, after all the hype of the films, we are soon due for a period again when Tolkien will once more be unfashionable as his work seemed to be during the 80s, which followed the initial fandom of the 60s/70s. We are still in the post-film period where other fantasy films are being made and marketed, as they will for a few more years as the LOTR films have stirred a thirst for such films, but as the quality of these films inevitably declines, will the currently high star of fantasy fall a little?

I know that one of the big LOTR film fan conventions was cancelled last year, as interest was lower than expected. Yet last year we had Tolkien 2005 and now Tolkien's Oxford, the fabulously expensive convention run by Second Spring. Of course, Oxonmoot continues as ever. Is it that the fandom has now matured as those who loved the films have moved on to the books?

I think that sites such as the Downs have helped foster a deeper interest in the books, and in pursuing questons at a more in depth level. Had the Internet not existed during the period the films were out I wonder whether fans would have found as many ways to form communities? Its the community aspect that keeps us going and maintains our interest. Just when you think there is nothing more that is new to say, someone comes out with a good point or challenging theory. Without the net we would never have that.

Is Tolkien fandom being kept going and increased by the Internet alone?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Are you going to Central Lancashire?

Liverpool John Moors, my lady. I'm studying Imaginative writing.

As with any random spurred on by films, time will filter out the passing interested and the dedicated. Take the Barrow Downs, for a start, I'm sure there was a mass influx of members during the initial film period, yet how many of those are still fans, I wonder.
There will always be geeks, of course, proud and strong!
Apparently, (someone will have to correct me if I am wrong), there was, once upon a time (and still is, as far as I am aware), courses one could take a university course in Tolkien, or at least a part of a course was concerned with his writings. I only assume this is still going on as I still hear of people being Tolkien scholars.

The Internet has expanded the fandom, I will agree. Or perhaps, the once segregated and far sundered Tolkien groups and fans are here being brought together. I am sad not to have been a part of the pre film fandom in any big way (in my defence, I did read The Hobbit before the films came out).

Time will tell.

[Bêthberry]

Internet forums ebb and flow, like the tides of the moon. They are never static, but in some form of flux, even those with conscientious moderators and admins.

I suspect that any forum has a shelf life of about two years--the pounding of the surf changes the shore line as much as each wave has its own hight and depth. Within that length of time, enough members will leave and enough new members come online that the community and its interests subtly or not so subtly change. Groups and sub-groups form, sometimes great divides are wrenched open, sometimes just the same questions get asked again in different forms and with different perspectives. Time was on the Downs that Books and N & N were the busiest forums, now it is Mirth. Both pop and the internet are disposable cultures for instant gratification (which is not to denigrate them) so it isn't surprising that people come and go and topics surge up and down. People age too and after five years people's interests can change. You can surf the crests or tumble in the troughs; you can swim or float idly or just build sand castles at the edge of the shore; but water remains a shapeless medium--at least in either a liquid or gaseous state. And who wants to be as inflexible as ice--unless it is to tinkle in a cooling beverage?

[davem]

Bear with me while I digress.

The last five years have been my most intense period of interest in Tolkien. I first read LotR nearly 30 years ago & after about seven years, in which I read TH, The Sil, UT every year (& BoLT 1&2 once) I drifted into fairly regular readings of LotR & TH & TS & UT occaisionally, along with regular listenings to the BBC adaptation.

It was, ironically, the appearance of the movies which inspired me to get into Tolkien seriously, since when I've read HoM-e through & collected 60+ volumes of 'Tolkieniana', been to Oxonmooot & stood by Tolkien's grave 3 times, spent 5 days at an international Tolkien conference in Birmingham, joined the Down's & met someone who's changed my life.

Whether my interest will continue at this level I've no idea. I'll never not be a lover of Tolkien's work, but I suspect that as the general interest fades (& hence the books & conferences disappears) I'll drift back into my 'simpler' approach, which I think I really preferred in a way. You can analyse things to death.

So, my feeling is that Tolkien will become increasingly accepted in academic circles as a 'serious' writer as the years pass, but I'll probably drift back to TH & LotR every year or so, along with the BBC series, & the rest of the collection will probably find its way onto a bookcase in a back room to be taken down occasionally to check some obscure 'fact'.

I'm looking forward to it, in a way.....

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

Bear with me while I digress.

The last five years have been my most intense period of interest in Tolkien. I first read LotR nearly 30 years ago & after about seven years, in which I read TH, The Sil, UT every year (& BoLT 1&2 once) I drifted into fairly regular readings of LotR & TH & TS & UT occaisionally, along with regular listenings to the BBC adaptation.

It was, ironically, the appearance of the movies which inspired me to get into Tolkien seriously, since when I've read HoM-e through & collected 60+ volumes of 'Tolkieniana', been to Oxonmooot & stood by Tolkien's grave 3 times, spent 5 days at an international Tolkien conference in Birmingham, joined the Down's & met someone who's changed my life.

Whether my interest will continue at this level I've no idea. I'll never not be a lover of Tolkien's work, but I suspect that as the general interest fades (& hence the books & conferences disappears) I'll drift back into my 'simpler' approach, which I think I really preferred in a way. You can analyse things to death.

So, my feeling is that Tolkien will become increasingly accepted in academic circles as a 'serious' writer as the years pass, but I'll probably drift back to TH & LotR every year or so, along with the BBC series, & the rest of the collection will probably find its way onto a bookcase in a back room to be taken down occasionally to check some obscure 'fact'.

I'm looking forward to it, in a way.....

Ah, davem has turned the thread into a soppy moment now.

...but I'm not so sure the collection will find its way into a back room now it has taken all that effort to reorganise the shelves.

I suppose from that respect I've had two phases of being a mad fan, first in the early/mid 80s and then in more recent years. As soon as it became news that the films were coming out I would get asked about them by friends - what they were about and so on. So of course I had to do more reading to make sure I gave them the right answers, and had to find good arguments when someone woulnd me up about 'Legless' and 'Bilblob' and so on... Of course this time around two things have been different. Firstly, I have the money to buy the peripheral books instead of having to get them from the library. Secondly, I have the net and the opportunity to talk to people who do not wind me up about 'Legless'!

I have no doubt that my interest will not diminish. It never has. But I also have the reason that Tolkien brought davem to me, and that's as good a reason as any. More soppiness.....

[The Saucepan Man]

I suspect that I have somehow morphed from a Tolkien fan with an interest in surfing the net into a Barrow-Downs fan with an interest in Tolkien - if that makes any sense ...

[Formendacil]

As long as I live, there will be at least one Tolkien fan in the world. Once I'm dead, 'tis my hope and expectation to meet Tolkien- and finally read a complete, authoritative, and canonical Silmarillion.

Meanwhile, here on this Earth, I foresee no end to the Tolkien fandom. There have been enough generations now to prove that it's a fairly timeless tale. We should, with the movies gone, reach a more or less constant plateau of fan numbers (or back to the slower, steady growth of the pre-movie days).

When the Silmarillion and the HoME finally (if ever) go into the Public Domain (an event that, incidentally, I dread...) I suspect that we shall see a number of new Silmarillions on the market. Quite frankly, I don't see that as a bad thing- unless it should confuse beyond reckoning what the "real" Middle-Earth is. And, while I may not like that inevitable befuddlement, I think that Tolkien might rather approve the confusing of tradition and the infusion of new, alien elements... It gives it a greater air of historical tradition. And it'll be fun, if nothing else, to see what people come up with... a complete "Notions Paper", anybody? How about "The Lost Road"? Or "Tal-Elmar"? I predict MANY variations of the "New Shadow".

So, as a bit of a reactionary by nature, I'm not eager to see such things happen (although I must confess that I have asperations- if no more- to put together my own Silmarillion), but they will be exciting times indeed. And even if I dreaded the coming of the movies, I cannot say that they have been for ill...

I also predict more Tolkien movies within my lifetime... though I dare not say when. Certainly a Hobbit. And, hopefully, a whole series on the Silmarillion.

[tom bombariffic]

I know that the lecturer I will have the pleaser of being taught by next year at University is a Tolkien fan and scholar

Sounds good, they seem to be everywhere. My tutor was even taught by Tolkien himself at Oxford! Needless to say he's an absolute hero. One of the world's leading authorities on Old Norse they say...

To bring this back to the topic, I'd say to find the answer, just look at the member list. Hundreds of people on it come, post a dozen times and never return. However, there is a dedicated section of fans who stick around, and I think there always will be. Therefore, I'd say that the nature of fandom has changed, but only in that it is on average more widespread and less fanatic. Once you get to the centre though, it's the same as ever.

bombariffic

[Nogrod]

Even though this is somewhat personal, I think this will also say something of a more general nature.

My father read us the LotR when we were children - we never got finished, but that made me read the stuff myself. That was in the 70's.

I went to see Roy Bakshi's animation when it came to the theatres and I surely was impressed. That was the early 80's.

I read the books (LotR, Hobbit, Silm.) to my children as they were 4-6 year-old. They have been hooked ever since - Lommy particularly (her little sister will not join the BD on priciple as we two - on her mind - are too enthusiastic with it ). That was the 90's - and is today.

Now Lommy has persuaded me to come here - and I just have loved my time around. I admit being most taken by the RPG's and WW'ing, but the other threads have been interesting too, truly.

Anyhow, there seems to be different kinds of people posting in here as Bêthberry noted. I'm not good at the Tolkien trivia, and I admit it. Still I have read the books a couple of times and have my own impression of them from the decades before the PJ-films and I love them! I love Tolkien's world and I'm not hesitant to say this. It's so great to see a community of this kind! This is just how it should be!

And to try to answer Lalwende's opening question: yes, there are different generations of Tolkien-lovers. And we should not ignore those who have taken their first glimpse of the "Tolkien world" via the movies by PJ. How do these people differ from those who got into Tolkien in the 60's because of their friends and Led Zeppelin? That was the popular culture of the time.... or people like me, being read the stories on my childhood? We "elders" shouldn't discrace people getting interested on Tolkien just because they got interested in him / his works via Hollywood, unlike we did?

I just love the internet-age. There wouldn't be a Barrow Downs without it...