The Lord of the Bible?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by alatar

My point here is that if Lucifer rebels pre-Creation or during Creation, then it may be closer to Arda than thought. And think that I may have included the Biblical verse previously where it states that Satan was sinning from the beginning.

Hmm. It all depends on which 'Satan' one ascribes to. The Satan we know in popular culture is inherited from Milton. (And we ought to recall that Milton's Paradise Lost is/was on the Vatican list of proscribed books for its doctrinal irregularities, so we cannot automatically assume that Tolkien ascribed to a Miltonic Satan.) One very interesting, very different view of Satan is Elaine Pagel's The Origin of Satan

Her thesis is that in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible, the satan was merely an adversary of humans, doing God's will to challenge or test us but that as Christianity developed in the first century he was literally demonised to be the enemy within. Melkor is not simply an antagonist of the Children of Illuvatar, but one whose desire to sub-create challenges Eru's status as The One. In fact, perhaps it can be said that Melkor's rebellion arises from the original treatment of him as the enemy within who is demonised.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Hmm. It all depends on which 'Satan' one ascribes to. The Satan we know in popular culture is inherited from Milton. (And we ought to recall that Milton's Paradise Lost is/was on the Vatican list of proscribed books for its doctrinal irregularities, so we cannot automatically assume that Tolkien ascribed to a Miltonic Satan.) One very interesting, very different view of Satan is Elaine Pagel's The Origin of Satan

Agree. Think that many think that Milton's work is in the Bible, word for word. Read Pagel's book, and it's interesting to see the 'evolution' of Satan.

Melkor is not simply an antagonist of the Children of Illuvatar, but one whose desire to sub-create challenges Eru's status as The One. In fact, perhaps it can be said that Melkor's rebellion arises from the original treatment of him as the enemy within who is demonised.

Did Melkor want to be like his father (assuming Eru is male) like Aule, but, from pride, not want to accept any criticism and so decided to become a 'spoiler,' not trying to add but to simply ruin the works and joy of others? Not big on the series, but isn't there a take in one the Anne Rice's (?) vampire books that describes things from the devil's side, where he takes the side of humans over God's plan, somewhat like Prometheus? In that version Satan rebels for the 'good' of mankind. Melkor cannot be confused with that version though, as by the time man arrives in Arda he's already well into his blackness.