A Community Statement

[Nogrod]

addenda...

Originally Posted by Spm

What was the purpose of this thread? My understanding from the petition was that it was to seek further clarification for davem’s ban and reassurance that members will not be banned without warning and without being given a very clear indication as to why whatever it was that prompted the warning was considered inappropriate.

You are somewhat right here. I quess many of us felt it really disturbing that just after davem had been banned for a short period of time - and came back - he was banished for ever just like that, *flush*, without any further notice or warning or anything. That I think disturbed many of us - and I think still disturbs.

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I have never been a friend of any "conspiration-theories" as I see them just voicing peoples hope to have the world look easy & simple and to get a culprit nailed (like the Nazis or modern day fundamentalists) instead of seeing the world as really a complicated place with differing interests and options. But really, Boromir voiced one of my concerns here:

Personally I didn't feel like what davem said was out of line by your own admission SpM you say nobody lodged a complaint, nobody contacted a mod for his removal or felt he had created some huge hurtful Crusade against religion. So, if nobody felt offended by his remarks why was it such a problem to the mods? It's the mods jobs to make sure to keep this as a friendly and an accepting environment as possible...if nobody had a problem with what he said (and I have yet to see or hear from somebody that did) than why did the mods feel like what he was saying was out of line? What gave them the feeling like what davem was doing was harming the 'good community' of the downs, if nobody felt offended by his remarks?

I had already let go of this suspicion and thought of myself being too taken with the subject-matter (being a non-believer myself), but as Boro states, the logic doesn't back the point? How come he was banned indeed if not for his views? Is there something that has not been revealed here?

I really would like to continue with a point made by Valier to show a thing:

When I first heard that Davem was banned I thought of course he had to have done something really bad to have been banned. So I checked out the thread for myself, and as soon as I saw that it had to do with religion I didn't need to read any more. Religion is a touchy subject.
I understand where the mods where coming from. If I myself were a Mod and saw that the topic of religion was starting to heat up, and one person was lighting it, I would kindly ask that person to watch what they say.

Now this tells a lot. If you have a thread were the christian aspects of the LotR or other works of Tolkien are discussed approvingly, that is just allright ("Aragorn had a long hair - like Jesus had", copyright by davem, I think? ), no one will come saying that's inappropriate. But when those people think that anyone proposing alternative viewpoints is just downright wrong because of him not sharing the christian point of view, what then? I can see davem's bitterness here as justified: really thought of points and countless hours of thought and deliberation vs. "Hey, isn't Gandalf the White like a resurrection of Christ - so Tolkien wrote him as a christ?" (as he wrote Frodo and Aragorn and Eowyn and...)

If it is so, that is scary how nicely you soften it. If one viewpoint is right without any question and challenging it is not... and include the tone issue: you can preach one interpretation as you will but not another... I didn't see this as a fair judgement, even with the explanations. The "other side" of these debates was at many times as bullying and stubborn (although lacking davem's argumentative skills). So shouldn't you have banned all those flamers there?

But what I am even more worried about, is the attitue of Glirdy and the Only Real Estel. I know Glirdy is a young guy and that should be counted in favour of him (no offence Glirdy, really!), of the Real Estel I know nothing, so leave that be.

But really, this is a question of someone! Hey, a fellow Barrow-Downer! Not just one "freak" you stumbled in the MySpace or who sent you an offer for Viagra or something; whatever, he is / was a colleague, a friend, one of your own community!

And it's not someone you browse as an alias on a random-site, but a real human being who has dedicated lot more hours / years to this thing any one of us could even imagine and whom you have somewhat known during a long time! And yes, and most poignantly, someone to whom this site & the discussion probably was more than to any one of those trying to downplay his situation ("well, that's just one downer, everything's all right soon").

So show some grace, some virtue, please! Maybe turning the other cheek here could be considered if you're so sure about the message and so pure as you think (mainly relating to those in whose interests the bannig of davem was) - or can you choose by your own feeling, which parts of the Scripture to follow and which not? "Jesus loved his enemies but we shall have no mercy with davem, no way, he should go!"

Maybe there is no conspiracy - I think there isn't - but if there were people who made complaints about davem and demanded his downfall, I think they really should be brave enough (virtuos, courageous, human...) to come forwards and show why they are good people to the BD's whereas davem is not... and what were their arguments! Hiding in the shadows is not moral nor is it even christian...

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I really have appreciated Spm's and Alatar's posting here as they have made me feel that I've on the road to understanding what has happened (and they made a couple of good points I hadn't considered earlier).

But there are question-marks still... If we are honest, everyone should be.

I really think this discussion has all the potentiality to clean the air here and make this site flower again, I really trust that being so.

But we may also break a lot of things.

I hope we do not.

There are too many good things in this site for it. (You see, I'm "backtracking" also as I like this site too much! I don't know whether it tells good of the site or ill of myself... )