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Old 04-13-2007, 02:31 PM   #1
Raynor
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Originally Posted by alatar
Would elves have gotten a taste for each other's blood had they never taken the road West?
However, the chainning of Melkor for three ages brought almost to zero during that time the number of elves that became orcs (who had no problem killing elves).
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How would they have turned out had they not heeded the Call?
Well, I already quoted in my first post here the various positive aspects of the elves that made to Aman - and back.
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but methinks in time everyone would lose interest from the monotony.
The last paragraph of the (actual) Silmarillion warns about the power of Melkor's lies, which grow fruit ever and anon. In the letters, Tolkien comments on the fact that Men believing that serial immortality in Ea should be theirs is a chief lie of the agents of evil. Thus, I don't think your alternative is better; giving perpetual opportunity, they would keep on falling.
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But in this version we don't see him slugging it out with Melkor.
Besides what I mentioned earlier, he is the first to oppose Melkor's claim of lordship; Valaquenta mentions speciffically Melkor contended with Manwe ("and the other valar"). Moreover, a great leader needn't be a factotum, always at the forefront; most of the times, if not always, there is far greater advantage to be gained from proper coordination.
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chopping off someone's arm when no other way is available to keep them from stabbing my child is not.
Then again, even after Melkor's escape, the valar were still cautious to attack him, since even then he was still powerful enough to destroy Arda, as can be seen from some comments in HoME X, which I partially quoted. Permanent propensity towards violence is not the best attitude in such conditions.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:30 PM   #2
The 1,000 Reader
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I'd have to say Sauron. From the start, he was nothing but a carbon-copy Melkor who was less potent at everything. Use of his powers is shown few and far between, and nothing of extreme strength is shown. Sauron proved to be incompetent when he wasted werewolves one by one and then struck at Luthien when Huan had dropped his guard, which is senseless due to the fact that Sauron took wolf form only to fight Huan. Rather than take the form of a troll to pry Huan off or become something to small to be bitten, Sauron becomes a snake and then surrenders. Pardon my language, but he completely became Luthien's and Huan's *****.

Afterwards, his plan with the Rings failed due to underestimating the elves' senses, and the dwarves being uncorrupted. Afterwards, he waged war and lost. Numenor defeated him again, and he was too blind to realize that Numenor was in danger of Eru's wrath, thus causing him to die again. Afterwards, he struck too soon and was defeated utterly.

Finally, he was horribly arrogant regarding the One Ring and made horrible decisions based on his paranoia of the Ring being used against him by someone such as Aragorn. In the end, he died not in a struggle or a final blaze of glory, but by a lunatic tripping during his victory dance. It was as if Eru was saying "You don't even deserve a standard death."
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Last edited by The 1,000 Reader; 04-13-2007 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:53 PM   #3
Rune Son of Bjarne
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Turgon!

What a foolish elf he was. . . First he builds Vinyamar and settles there with his people, he is told to secretly build a new city. . .this must have been really tiresome work and it must have gone really slow as they could not just all march there and start building. That would surely have been discovered.

When in Gondolin, because he does take proper security meassures his sister dies. . .He does not give order to pick up Hurin and so his location is discovered.

But the thing that makes him so foolish is that he goes through all this trouble to please the Valar and then he does not see it through. . .that does not make sence. The his people have laboured in vain and not only does it make him foolish it also makes him selfish. His people died because he found Gondolin ever so pretty.
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Old 04-15-2007, 12:54 AM   #4
Neithan Tol Turambar
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most foolish ruler

Freca was a fool for going to Edoras out numbered many times and insulting the king in his own house, and maybe not so in other houses, but this was Helm.
If he really thought that Helm was so blind that he could not see through his power play, and then to react with a vieled threat, when he should have laughed along with the rest and then gave a speach about peace between Dunland and Rohan, and the prosperity that such a marriage might provide both kingdoms, an end to old grievances and new trade missions that would make them rich . . .
I could have pulled it off, but then again I'm not fat, and I am more like Helm.
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