Werewolf, why to play or not to play?

[The Might]

Well, as a real newb to the game, I doubt I can contribute much to the whole discussion, but I actually have begun to grow fond of the game. It's a quite interesting concept and I guess it is quite fun to play, though I must admit I find many posts quite boring.
I definitely must agree with Rikae, I mean, I've only played it for a day and I already realised she's right. Doing something rather innovative and I must say fun such as voting oneself or being too confusing is already taken as a sign of being a bad guy.
Anyways, guess maybe a bit less analysis and a bit more wackiness might give the whle thread a less tense appearence where all are analysing what is going on.
As for lder members, I doubt that it had something to do with WW for many of them, but rather with the whle Downs, RL problems can at times hinder you from posting.

[Volo]

If I understood Legate, I find his thoughts logical, but to some extent I don't agree. In my opinion the Junior games should be brought back! There should be different level games, whether they're for the old school and the younger generation or for the classical format players and the experimental players.

I have found it rather hard to play with players of a "different age group" as one automaticly assumes that your style is know. At least me, to a large extend. But at the same time I think that assuming so is annoying, when I myself don't know the style.
Example:
Imagine a new player seeing me vote myself and then ignoring that as just my style.
Or then imagine me not voting for myself like I usually do and then lynching me for acting strange.

I'm not saying that games should be strictly limited only to such and such players, just that the level of the games should be varied!

I doubt that I would have come to WW if not for the Junior games, but after that I did try joining a "real game".
Or then, like I already said, games could be divided into clear "classical games" with only the very basic roles and to "experimental games" with Mediums, Lynch-Seers and what nuts.
I myself prefer experimental games by far, but many players don't.

We could try putting the mod-list into an order where every other game will be of a different format.


Another thing that I lack is the after-game discussion. I like going through one game and talking about it, before joining the next one. Breaks from WW are essential.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Volo

In my opinion the Junior games should be brought back! There should be different level games, whether they're for the old school and the younger generation or for the classical format players and the experimental players.

I can't see this happening soon Volo. We are having trouble getting enough players for a game. The purpose of 'Junior' was to have a medium wherewith there could be two games running concurrently. Some saw Junior as a lesser game area whereas that was not the purpose of it. So Junior was closed until there was enough demand for having two games again.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, personally, I don't have experience with the Junior games - when I started to play, they have already ended. I joined WW because I got a PM from Mac (a mod at that time), and I considered joining WW before, but was not sure if I would have enough skill for the game. At that time, I pitied that WWJ does not exist anymore - I would have most probably joined. So, from what I know about them I believe they could have served in a good way as a "changing station" for the new players, but I guess there was the problem with not enough people for both the junior and "senior" games.

Originally Posted by Volo

Or then, like I already said, games could be divided into clear "classical games" with only the very basic roles and to "experimental games" with Mediums, Lynch-Seers and what nuts.
I myself prefer experimental games by far, but many players don't.

We could try putting the mod-list into an order where every other game will be of a different format

I believe there was an attempt to do exactly this during this year's Spring, but I think it had somewhat failed. One also has to consider the wishes of the Mods, which may not always hold to the lined-up scheme (and one cannot just switch the Mods' positions on the ladder because sometimes someone does not have enough time to mod etc.).

[Estelyn Telcontar]

As a moderator with a primary interest in book discussions, I have a rather different slant on this question. I watched the start of WW games with curiosity, even joined one to try it out, and found it to be extremely time-consuming. With that in mind, I watched with concern as the Books and other forums became neglected because the WW games involved so many members who suddenly had less time for posting there. I know not all members who play WW were active elsewhere, some even joined just to play, but a lot of previously excellent posters were too busy for discussion threads. So, if WW games slow down, perhaps there will be more of those again?

That said, real life is definitely a concern for many of us, whether we concentrate on discussion, mirth, RPing, or WW. Like numerous others, I find myself busier elsewhere now than I was back when I first joined and spent hours reading and writing posts. Change is a major Tolkien theme, so why are we surprised when it involves us Tolkien fans?!

[Nogrod]

Good to see all you people taking part in the discussion!

And yes, time, time, time...

I do agree with people who say that you shouldn't play if you can't take the time for it. To me as well playing WW means using time, reading, thinking and writing. It's a game only when you actually play it and that takes time. I also understand Morm's point when there are twenty hyperactive players around it may get a bit over the top but that hasn't been the case in a long-long time. I kind of remember games where there were something like 5 pages of posting on just Day1!

Where to find time? Lhuna was questioning us adults... Well, we just make that time. It's easy when you just set your duties aside. One can fex. tell oneself that as I have such a stress with the work it does me good to relax with a game this evening and leaving the stressful duties. Those duties will certainly come to slap you to the face later but then you just have to deal with them.

There have been some other very interesting questions raised as well. I'll just make a few brief comments as I have a WW-game to play right now and need to go to sleep pretty soon (about 6 hours before I need to wake up in the morning...).

I hadn't thought of the situation as the old-school vs. the newbies as sharply as some of the posts do. But there may be a wisdom in there. All I wish to say at the moment is to encourage the "old-school" -people to come back and try it out once again. It's still fun and the newer players come known to you only by playing with them. (And btw. Legate, if you say I'm the one who just keeps playing please remember that I'm a newbie compared to Lommy...)

I'd both agree and disagree with Rikae. I'd disagree with the point of the games coming "formulaic" or to be a kind of multiple choice -list stuff. For example in the last game (Gil's game that is) I was the seer and Legate was the ranger. We won the game by being the last two persons alive after a few pretty nice manouvres. I don't think that has ever happened before and it was a most enjoyable game in many ways. There would be other examples as well.

But I'd agree with Rikae if we discuss the Day1's... Oh, the Day1 discussion again... I think many people have become a bit too careful by being too knowledgeable of the possible loopholes with which they can save their necks. So even if I'm happy no one kind of whines how they hate Day1's anymore they play it in a safe-mode that is not so fun anymore. It oftentimes looks like getting alive from Day1 is more important than having a good game. Rikae's destiny in the game we are playing right now is a case in point.

Also. If people are not whining about their hatred against Day1's anymore then also the games and the after-game discussions have turned into a more civilised enterprise. I think there haven't been any problems with people getting confused with themselves as persons and as players in a game in a long time. Also I think people are very much encouraging and positive towards each other. So those problems seem to have disappeared and that's a good thing indeed.

Finally I'd like to appreciate Estelyn's viewpoint. I can see that perfectly well!

Which nicely brings us back to from where I started; time, time, time...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

As a moderator with a primary interest in book discussions, I have a rather different slant on this question. I watched the start of WW games with curiosity, even joined one to try it out, and found it to be extremely time-consuming. With that in mind, I watched with concern as the Books and other forums became neglected because the WW games involved so many members who suddenly had less time for posting there. I know not all members who play WW were active elsewhere, some even joined just to play, but a lot of previously excellent posters were too busy for discussion threads. So, if WW games slow down, perhaps there will be more of those again?

That said, real life is definitely a concern for many of us, whether we concentrate on discussion, mirth, RPing, or WW. Like numerous others, I find myself busier elsewhere now than I was back when I first joined and spent hours reading and writing posts. Change is a major Tolkien theme, so why are we surprised when it involves us Tolkien fans?!

These are very good things to mention. Also the Book one. The games like WW are relaxation, though sometimes one gets hooked and... well, the Downs are not entirely about this, are they? One could visit a special WWing (or Mafia, for that matter) forum. Or with less fantasy play a... Counterstrike or whatever they play these days (for me it used to be Aliens versus Predator).

There is something like a natural flow of things. There is time with more WW, there is time with less WW. The Preacher could say: "There is time for WWing, and there is time to stop WWing". But it's always that someone gets used to something and it's hard to leave that habit, and it seems strange when there are suddenly less players or less games. But look - now suddenly, there appeared people like sally, Nerwen, or The Might and they seem to enjoy the game (of course let's wait what they say on the afterthread). So who knows what the future of WW is. Whether it will or will not be played in the future, and in what scale, is still, for the most part, not in our powers. It depends on the interest of every person who is at this forum and even on the interest of every person who is not already at this forum, even, but will be.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I don't have time.

That simple.

Part of why I ran away is because of the experimental games and the formulaic approach to everybody. I may have time to play now and then, but not if I have to learn wacky rules which may involve hermaphroditic penguin rangers with muse-powers, and not if I'm going to be lynched based on ratio of times I've won to times your mom's lost... There's a difference between critical thinking and penning up Venn diagrams, Microsoft Excel documents, and lists of your uncle's former wife's old business major friends from her Uni days.

So when I play again (the last half of December, give or take), I can tell you what I'll be looking for, and you can glean from that whatever you like:

A fairly small game.

An inviting player list of people I know I'll have fun with.

Simple roles, simple rules.

An AM start/end time.

A mod who can write interesting death scenes.

Yep...

Bed time. Classes bright and early which will last until dark and late...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Well, I think there are many good reasons to play WereWolf. I quite enjoy the game, though I haven't played in probably about a year. There's the black humor, the suspense, intrigue, and suspicion, the refreshing complexity of working with (or against) some very intelligent people in a unique setting...

I wasn't driven away by a lack of variety. I wasn't scared off by the rumors of people taking it too seriously (in fact, I never encountered a situation like that, in any of the games I played!). I don't shy away from friendly competition, either.

In fact, the one reason I've stayed away is because I am, like Boro, Phantom, Fea, and probably many others, suddenly too busy for it. I have barely even been on the 'Downs at all lately (something I am trying to fix), to say nothing of having the free hours it would take to play. College is getting in the way. Being a theater major can mean twelve-hour days. I'm not complaining, since it's the life I've chosen for myself...but it does make participating here in any valuable capacity difficult.

There's also the fact that I live in an inconvenient time zone for most of the games I actually participated in (I'm in EST, and these things start and end either in the middle of class or late at night, it seems). This means I'd either miss voting entirely, or have to vote absurdly early, neither of which is constructive toward a good game experience for me or anyone else.

When piled onto my timezone, class, and theater schedule, another commitment of any kind just begins to sound like work, which isn't the attitude I'd want to approach this game with, either.

I am, however, hoping that there will be a game over winter break that I can take part in. In spite of all my real life issues (and the stress the game itself generates--just kidding!), WW is a lot of *fun* and I'd be sorry to see it go. I won't have work or class or theater. In short, I won't know what to do with myself, so I might as well play.

I think a return to the basics might do WW good, as Fea mentioned.

*A smaller number of players would mean a shorter game, and less reading, which makes it possible for people with more time constraints perhaps more able to play.

*A return to the basic rules with basic roles (werewolves, a ranger, a seer, and your common innocent villagers), might do well, too, in terms of making it accessible to all. That's not to say I don't *like* new ideas--I played the dueling wizards game, one of the lovers games, as well as the one with all the families in which I flirted with Phantom. Yes, that's how I categorize it. Heh. All were great fun...but a return to the basics really does have a certain charm.

*I'll deviate a bit and say a start/end time that I can deal with. It's not even a morning thing. I'm just not able to stay up until 3 am to cast my vote...regardless of the late hour as I post this.

*And who doesn't want a good death scene? When I get lynched by my misunderstanding fellow innocents, I want to go out in a true ironic style, snickering to myself at the sheer frustration and black humor of it all.

That said, I'm probably not going to be too picky about the game I join as winter break draws closer. I'm seriously going through WW withdrawal. My life could use a little suspense right now.

In fact, if the mod-list allows, I think a home for the holidays, back to the basics sort of game might be a good one to generate interest. Perhaps it could even help unite the old crowd with the new. Just a thought. I have no idea how it would work out.

People are complaining about the formulaic nature that is suddenly appearing. Perhaps it's just helpful to remind everyone that it's a game, and the nature of WW is that it is exactly as fun, exciting, twisty, and suspenseful as you make it. *shrug* Just a thought.

Sorry for the long ramble. It's clearly past my bedtime. :P

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Change is a major Tolkien theme, so why are we surprised when it involves us Tolkien fans?!

Not only change, but the long defeat is a major Tolkien theme. Seems things were always better back in the day for Tolkien and his elves, so I suppose it will seem that way to Tolkien fans too. Is the answer just for all to sail west? Or are werewolves not wanted on the voyage?

[The Might]

Don't play it, it's addictive

[Thinlómien]

Do play it, it's addictive.