That's not even one of Uglúk's faults

[Nazgûl-king]

I wonder if things were any different for the Orcs under the Great Goblin, compared to the Orcs under the Dark Lords or White Wizard. The orcs seem to me, to be the kind of race that could easily wipe themselves out, so the Great Goblin most of been a strong leader to keep his people alive. The Orcs seem to settle disagreements by killing each other; they also don’t seem to be very loyal to each other.

[The Might]

Well, I think we pretty much got a conclusion, or at least I have mine.

Orcs as a society are incapable of living together in peace, although there do indeed seem to be certain exceptions from this rule.
However, I am wondering if these exceptions were only moments of kindness or hints that there is more behind it.

If that was the case could it be that these Orcs were not understood by anyone, including the Valar? Because we see there would have been some hope for Gollum, but never anything is said of Orcs.

Probably only Eru knew if any of them were redeemable.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I thought I might toss into the stewpot this exerpt from the Oddlots blog (nameless, unfortunately):

Briefly, I will only say that by reducing [the Orcs], nothing is added to the film. Grishnákh is one of the scariest villains in all fantasy: someone who is perfectly rational, and perfectly selfish, and who has no compassionate feelings for anyone else — but is clever, and empathic, enough to understand what motivates others. He isn't crazy, he isn't a mad slasher or a mindless monster: he's the embodiment of the Secret Police, the door kicked down in the night, the soundproofed room, the hand on the electrode's switch… —Uglúk, on the other hand, has a kind of ruinous nobility about him, and it is fitting that he dies in heroic hand-to-hand combat with the prince of his foes. He does care, on some level of his violent, hate-shaped mind, about his followers; he is capable of a kind of brutal selflessness, and unlike Grishnákh, is not sadistic in the same way: he does not have time, in his harsh responsible soul, for savouring fear like a potent wine, as the more sophisticated torturer does. (When Grishnákh talks about coming back because he cares about the likely lads left behind under a bad commander, he instantly reveals himself as a phoney, and Uglúk the genuine, if hideous, article.) He is Grendel given a tough job and great lines, in the book, and he is a worthy antagonist for Éomer.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wonderful contribution, William! Thanks a lot for this one. That is exactly what I hoped for.
Myself, I found this stuff about Uglúk absolutely fantastic - that he duels Éomer in the end. And Éomer himself dismounts to make a proper duel with him. That is something wonderful: the fact that Uglúk is worthy of such a thing in Éomer's eyes speaks a lot about him; there surely must have been some sort of "noble" spirit in him, recognizable. Éomer probably saw Uglúk for the first time in his life, and we are not told that Uglúk would distinct himself much from the "cannon fodder Orcs" in an apparent way - like that he was wearing a silver helmet or distinctions of a leader or being a meter taller than the others; so Éomer must have spotted something about him in other way - and that is probably on how Uglúk was acting. And yet Éomer, even upon realising "here is the leader of the filthy Orcs of Saruman" (who slew our dear brothers, fathers, friends etc.) does not simply chop his head off from ride-by attack, yet he dismounts and duels him, sword against sword (that also speaks something very positive about Éomer's personality). So, Éomer did not just recognize the leader in Uglúk, but also an Orc worth of the honour to fight him this way. And this must probably have been on Uglúk's actions. We know how Uglúk acts throughout the whole chapter - and he has something "noble" in him, indeed. He, as also the quote by William says very well, somehow cared about his sheep (*ahem*). He had this strong feeling of responsibility, if nothing else. So, it is quite probable - and that would be a wonderful scene - that the Riders attacked, and there was the first panic and the battle for some time, then sun rose and Uglúk (after "Mauhúr and his lads" were beaten back) organised some last stand as it was clear to him that the Rohirrim leave none alive, maybe even - and I will become very bold here and use the parallel with the disaster at Gladden Fields, not everyone has to agree, it is just my own idea - he could have tried to save some folks and like Isildur send someone to at least bring message to Orthanc. It would make a good stuff for these heart-touching war films, you know. "We make last stand here, and you, Lugdush, go and tell the White Wizard what happened. Go now! Run!" Beautiful, sad music, you know, camera cuts close to Uglúk's firm face and Lugdush with this wide-eyed stare, then the horses come closer and Lugdush at last turns and runs, yet two Riders part from the main group and chase him and stab him with their spears. So Uglúk turns to his followers and with the last effort he shouts orders on them, trying to maintain the spirit in them even though the end seems inevitable, and so Éomer spots him, and when the rest of the Riders scatter to chase the fleeing Orcs, he dismounts and faces Uglúk...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Note also the trenchant observations 'Arthedain' makes about Grishnakh. No bestial Cockney mutant he! More like Orwell's O'brien. It astounds me thet PJ, with his head stuffed full of Hollywood popcorn flicks, missed at least the similarities between this intelligent, sinister Commissar and Indy Jones' Gestapo man: "Vat shall ve talk about?" We should also remember that Grishy, whether motivated by 'the Cause' or selfish ambition or just a good healthy fear of Nazgul, performs prodigies of hardihood and endurance in the effort to claim the Prisoners for his dark master.

BTW, at http://oddlots.digitalspace.net/arthedain/ this fellow, a real connoisseur of film, has put up some of the most devastating critiques I have seen of Jackson *as a director*, as well as an interpreter of Tolkien. When he lets off both barrels with

This was a self-indulgent film by a director with not an ounce of romance or poetry in his soul, no experience in adaptation, no experience in high adventure, no subtlety, no sense of quiet personal interaction, no competense at suspense, no love of beauty — and a script adapted by people who missed the soul of the book entirely.

it's not random invective but a peroration, the epitome of a long discussion with examples of why this is so; he expresses many thing I have thought much better than I ever have, as well as additional points which escaped me (such as the fact that PJ devoted a full quarter of TT's running time to Helm's Deep).