Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Brinniel]

Okay, I've read through the last posts pretty fast, because I'm short on time..

Originally Posted by Groin

The one who was eager to postpone yesterdays discussions. I think she just dosen't know who her fellow Were Wolves are, that's why she dosen't accuse anybody.

I never said I wasn't going to accuse anyone; I just haven't gotten there yet!

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong. Maybe I'll even end up proving myself wrong. (Me, wrong? Those who know me from previous games know it's not unlikely).

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be...

Okay, the only person who has really caught my eye is Lommy. Usually she seems very innocent to me, but right now I feel she's only giving the appearance of being helpful...which is how a manipulative and louder wolf will act. I'm just getting some bad vibes from her...

I would continue on, but I have to go now and I'm not sure I'll be back before deadline. But if I were to make a vote, I think she'd be the best option. (Do I really need to make the official vote mark since it's not for a lynch? )

So tell me, if I were to change my mind about her in the future, will you guys be calling that wolfish? I can see the reason why you would...but it'd just be a very typical move to accuse anyone (not just me) for that reason...but I think it would be a bad idea. The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else. I'm out of time...sorry. I'll be back if I can...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another.
...
The wolves could easily manipulate us to base our suspicions on Day 0, and like I said, all of us innocents would be blinded by everything else.

I'm not so concerned about this one. What I'm afraid of is that we will have very quiet and shallow trials where no one has anything to say. I mean if normal Day1's are hard and sometimes quite random - and where it's hard to come up with anything worth saying - so how would a Day1 with only three players be?

Why should anyone base their suspicions only on Day0.0 after the trials are over? That would be stupid. And remember, this Day might go bad for the wolves as you said yourself they don't know each other. They might be the ones who'd wish this Day never occured...

[Isabellkya]

Hiii. Just a short post to say that I am here. Luckily we had ice this morning, otherwise I wouldn't be here for a number of hours.

*catches up on happenings*

[Nogrod]

Shasta has been his usual self I'd say - even if his style of popping in to say hello and to vanish immediately after that kind of annoys me (sorry Shasta, nothing personal as it's just a question of a playing style). So nothing unusual there but after the Days go by he might prove a problem if he doesn't post more. Anyway I'd say innocentish this far.

Menel the pessimist is a questionmark to me as well. There is sense in his words even if I disagree with a lot in there. But then again he's an experienced player. Although I might say he looks less lynchable than he usually does... I don't know what to say of it.

The Might is even more an enigma. He clearly was not understanding the game-mechanics or the timelines but then his weird theory in his last post does confuse one even more... making one think he might be innocent in the end. Or a very bold wolf. So innocentish I'd say.


Many people to comment on and not too much time... Maybe I'll go for impressions after this as there might be some live-discussions here to take part in? Let's see.

[Nogrod]

I'd disagree with some of the things Rikae said here.

Voting is a big symbolic gesture. We innocents can do it wholeheartedly as we ponder who of the people looks suspicious. Some of us will be dead after the trials so this is our last chance to try and help others.

Voting now only offers the wolves an easy way to appear innocent by "voting" those who genuinely look evil to them

I do not think that if someone votes toDay s/he's an innocent. But if the lonely and isolated wolves vote genuinely toDay for those who appear wolvish we have lots of nice data afterwards (they might have noticed something we didn't)... and if they try to fool us by voting for someone who is not actually suspicious they would have to come up with very far-fetched theories to explain their votes indeed. And those can be spotted.

So do vote people! And give your reasons!

[THE Ka]

Yay, more people have arrived.

I have some extra time inbetween classes and resume sending today so I thought I'd check in.

Whether Lommy is a wolf or whatever she may be, I'd like to say thank you for post #49. Mainly because I'm trying to scan as quickly as I can and add that to the other piles of theories. Thanks, it helps. A lot for lazy brains like mine.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here?

Yes, some sense. I think things are starting to come forth a bit more. I was kind of put off by the consistent loud vs. quiet arguement, which probably if put in a RL context would be a bunch of people yelling back and forth. Sorry, I find it kind of annoying once a theory has been beaten out over and over again. It doesn't let others, ordinary or possible wolves speak when there's only one arguement going round, and it doesn't make much progress. Except the progress of knowing that loud vs. quiet is an arguement.
Which, I am glad more people have come by and contributed. If all else, it won't flop the trial days like a flan in a cuboard.

With that in mind, I did suspect Roa for a little bit, by either the use of repeated arguement and anything else at disposal. Then, I figured that would be way too easy a move for anyone, especially wolves.
By throwing everyone into their respective corners of standing, is blalant a move. Or, it is also a good one, since it seems too easy as a form of suicide for anyone, thus others nod it off as good trickery (can I use that, or am I writing like Joyce again?). So for now, I don't have much to make any conviction about Roa or other loud/quiet ones in the earlier 'loud vs. quiet' arguement. So, for now I can say I don't have much to make any logic deduction.

Originally Posted by Agan

The wolves don't know who will be their fellows, but surely they don't want to lose any of them (in the trials or later).

Very true, but that is also for specials and ordinaries as well. Obviously the wolves, no matter how large a number there is of them in this game, they need as many as possible to make any great effect. So, whatever anyone throws out they can decide to go with or against. Examples of this are especially arguements about playing style. Diversions like that, when they're dragged on and on, are wonderful for a wolf.

I guess the same can be said about specials, except maybe the need for preserving themselves is an even dire effort. This is because, unlike the wolves, the specials are in different groups with different roles, etc. Whether they are counterproductive to each others' groups can be true, but specials even in larger amounts can be at a great disadventage by the way and number of votes in their direction.

Maybe even at a greater disadvantage is ordinaries, on certain trial days, and by who they vote for. If you're an ordinary, you necessarily don't wish to attract too much suspicious attention, and you definately don't want your vote to end up taking out another of your group or a special who can benefit you. So, in a way I can see why some players are especially cautious about their votes just yet, survival wise when you don't know the role of any other it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Agan

So if we force them to comment on others before they know their fellows, it'll be less likely that they can change their opinion about them later and get away with it.

Be careful about that, wolves really only want to appear as ordinaries at the most, and if they have a head on their shoulders they'll definately go with the most cavaliering and pious crowd, but try to make sure that their response is as unique as it is deemed 'appropriate' saying,
"Oh I agree, but have you looked at this? No?! Well, if it isn't too much to explain, you might kill me anyways, but here's my contribution to the cause..."

If you give them a 'hero', they'll write you a tragedy.

Now, any ordinary knowing their end coming might say the same thing, so that is why it is tricky. Of course though, we always need to remember people will randomly bring back their character's personality at times to keep things varied for the sake of writing.

I have to end my post at this, since I have some phone calls/RL things to finish up for now.

I have a stupid question first though, since I keep seeing people mention it on and off. I thought we were not supposed to know whom else we have a trial day with/tell others for very simple reasons? Sorry if this is stupid, but I just wished to ask since I haven't seen the discussion page today, just PM's I recieved.

~ Ka

[Aganzir]

++ Azaelia

She and Brinn are my top suspects right now, but I don't have time to go properly through their posts again. Her reaction to my suspicion was exaggerated.

edit: xed with the deadline. And didn't have time to read the posts from the last about five minutes either.

[Volo]

The first day in imprisoment was queter than expected. Much to the joy of the Wolves. The most significant events of the day included a physics lection by Legate the Ranger lvl. 17 and Nogrod the Dwarf from Nogrod (who was the first to wake from the revelation made by Sauron) trying to create something as subtle as a productive discussion with a sledge-hammer. Only Nogrod seemed to learn from Legate’s lesson, and he himself couldn’t manage to convince everybody that voting is a good idea. This day was a victory of the pessimists.

In the evening three more ships arrived and three more great warriors found themselves trapped in the golden temple. A Little Green Man mastered his fear of the Sun and Moon and his toes turning red and joined the discussion. So did Rikae the lover of retired Wolf Macalaure, who was living his life quite happily at his own private castle somewhere hidden in the mountains (he was, quite obviously, no longer a threat). Isabellkya joined the discussion last of the three and managed to stay away from the chaos that was slowly building.

It might be said that the three newcomers took the places of Sally, Kath and Gil-Galad who didn’t bother to say a word during the whole day. One answer to this might be that they were too busy sharpening their weapons, just like Ugh-Friedrich the host who was preparing speeches, being a host and all.

As the Sun came down completely (and ironically Nogrod would have been dead if this were any other day but today and to think that voting was his idea more than anyone's...), doors were opened into inner chambers of the temple, of for each of the warriors. None had to be asked twice (or even once) if they wanted to sleep. Insomnia didn’t keep a single person awake that night. Not even the Wolves, who were still too unorganized to go killing anybody.

---------~~

Ugh-Friedrich entered the balcony and took out his notes. The crowd cheered wildly and it made Ugh-Friedrich ajust his earplugs before he started to speak. A microphone was brought up to him by a slave.

”Welcome to the greatest event that has ever taken place on Númenor (which I would like to thank sincerely for sponsoring all of this)! It is awesome to see so many of you here today. I hope you’re having fun!” He lifted his brows and paused for a mere second. *YES* ”Just as I thought!

”As most of you know by now, the competitions will last 15 battle-filled days. The first stage has seven days in it. Three gladiators will fight to one’s death. That means that seven will die. The next stage will also last seven days and seven more will die then. The last, and most interesting part will be the 15th day of the event when all the seven remaining warriors will be sent to battle at the same time. Only one will stand alive after that. And it will be the first Man-” *DWARF!* ”- or Dwarf-” *WOMAN* ”- yes, yes, or woman (although Man does include woman, you know…) to ever be blessed by immortality. For that is indeed the one and only prize here!” Pause. ”Immortality!” *loads of clapping and shouting*

”Today three mighty warriors will fight!” Pause. ”One shall die.” Pause. ”Two shall live.” Pause. ”Will it be that one of them will become immortal?” Pause. ”They risk their lives to-”
”Get on with it!” somebody shouted from the audince.
Ugh-Friedrich felt his knees tremble as he was distracted from his notes. ”Ummm….” He began. ”Oh yes: Legate of Amon Lanc! Meneltarmacil the Mooseslayer! Valier of 27 Mysteries!”

---------~~

Alive:
Brinniel
THE Ka
Shastanis Althereduin
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Nogrod
Legate of Amon Lanc
The Might
Thinlómien
Valier
Groin Redbeard
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Gil-Galad
Roa_Aoife
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya
Rikae
A Little Green
Ugh-Friedrich (host)

---------~~

Day0.0 ended, Day0.1 began.

Legate, Menel and Valier may post and vote (for eachother). Others sit in silence.

[A Little Green]

Just a little (green) postie before I go and eat some (not little nor green) food.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another. Am I making any sense here? I get the feeling I may not be...

I think you most definitely are making sense, or else I don't grasp your meaning correctly. I have no new suspicions, I just wanted to say what I forgot in my last post and what I think Brinniel means with her statement here.

I find it troublesome (though possibly inevitable) that the one "lynched" and also those suspected today will be facing heavier suspicion in the trials, which in itself is not troublesome of course, but the point of the whole day 0. However, without hardly any basis at all, today's suspicions can be, and most likely are, quite random. Those suspected today might get a suspicious air in the trials just because they were voted, whatever the motives of the voters may be and however furry their posts really were. Now if this is making any sense then I must lift the little green hat for myself.

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod and Isabellkya

[Thinlómien]

I'm back and I must say we should mark our votes, even as they don't count.

Originally Posted by Azaelia

I haven't expressed any suspicion because it's just the first day.

If this is not just misfortunate phrasing, it's a very suspicious statement. And I'm, truth be told, annoyed with her making no statements of suspicion at all during Day1. What if we all acted like that?

Originally Posted by Azaelia

I have already said that while I'm not throwing today away completely, I do not want to base any opinions on today alone. It must be a personal style thing. I'm not a fan of the finger-pointing that happens on Day 1s. I'm actually not a fan of Day 1s in general. I don't think we have enough from anyone yet to form a solid opinion.

What? Excuse me, but who actually is saying that any opinions should be based on toDay's posts alone? That would be utter folly. I really really don't understand Zali and I'm afraid her logic seems somewhat wolfy.

Originally Posted by Noggles

My only problem with that is that if someone can totally fool me it's Lommy.

Like in Gil's game?

Originally Posted by LittleGreenMan

Is it just my imagination or do I see a contradiction here? When reading the first paragraph of that quote (the thing after the red alert), my first thought was "oh dear, so it's this same old thing, let's vote for the good, fluent, experienced players we personally like to play with". The second statement made me feel slightly better (and slightly less annoyed ).

What? Do you really mean that people like Nogrod tend to vote smart & experienced ones he likes to play with? For it's the contrary.

Originally Posted by Green

Overall, I don't quite know what to think about Nogrod. He is taking a leader role, and I am not sure whether I should be alarmed by it or not.

I don't have any clear image of him yet either, but if you're alarmed with him trying to take the leadership, well, I can tell you that he always does that, regardless of his role.

Originally Posted by Noggie

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy. Also his easy jump on Brinn looks a bit suspicious. But then again I'd be more than ready to grant him the benefit of doubt as this is his first game if I have it right.

I'm not perfectly happy either - though not because it looks wolvish to me, but because if he is innocent (like I'd currently be inclined to believe), I fear he might be easily lead. Groin, don't take the opinions or advice of the more experinced without chewing it first - I did that in my first game and well, I'm very glad those two I almost blindly listened to were gifteds. But not every newbie has such luck.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I guess one of my concerns is that people will be so caught up with events that occurred toDay, they won't notice later and more important clues that are right in front of their faces. It's happened before...where people are so concerned with one thing they are blinded by another.

Yes, yes, but I fail to see how it applies to this game especially...

I'd like to repeat something I've said before. Today, more and especially less accurate suspicion is flying around and some wolves might be out there that have chosen as their tactic trying to manipulate us. So, whatever we do toDay, we must read and ponder everything said toDay very carefully and critically before our trials. And in the trials, we should definitely not focus only on those who have posted or whose actions have been discussed toDay.

EDIT: mass xed with everything after Green's latest post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

But as I said before, I can understand why the majority want us to make a vote...it is nice to see how people stand early on. I even partly agree that perhaps some sort of accusations should be made. But...I just don't think anything done toDay will be particularly useful in the long run. But hey like I said, please do prove me wrong.

Well, as I said before, and some repeated that, the point of all people voting toDay is clear. The wolves don't know who the other wolves are. Let's say I'm a wolf and vote for the Might. Later, I find out that the Might is also a fellow wolf. I may of course continue my suspicion and slowly drop it (or at least weaken it), or even quickly drop it (which would cause immediate suspicion), or I may decide to keep the suspicion and eventually choose to sacrifice the Might in order to keep myself distanced from him. This method is not bulletproof, but with a good deal of luck it can bring valuable results. And if all of us don't vote, the possibility of evidence it offers cannot be even brought up. Or we can simply say (and the wolves who vote will surely agree) that all who did not vote on Day 1 should be lynched because only a wolf sees advantage in not voting on Day 1. Therefore, I say we all should vote toDay, or: if you are an innocent, vote, because otherwise it may happen that all wolves vote and then they say: "Ha, you, you did not vote, let's lynch you!" And it's only your bad decision that lead you to this bad situation.

Though I disagree with Brinn on her pessimistic view, from her post #44 I am inclined to judge her as innocentish.

Originally Posted by Lommy

But, in order to add some so called "Lommy-flipflopping", I must say I think I always suspect her, whether she's innocent or guilty... (last time, mind you, she was actually guilty)

That was not necessary to add. I have a vague idea where to put Lommy, but comments like this make me a little more aware.

Rikae brings a good point about the Gifteds, I thought this thing was not necessary to be said aloud, but maybe it's better if people who did not realise it in the first place can think about it as well.

Aganzir looks normal this far. What does that mean? Nothing, as one Cobbler (one of many) recently said, she is capable of being a very unsuspicious wolf. Nevertheless, this far okay.

I don't get what everyone has with Azalia, maybe I have not played with her to know her, but her playing style does not raise any alarms. But, thinking of it, yes, how should I notice any difference in her behavior when I never met her before.

Little Green also looks ok, not like when she was playing the last time and were a wolf

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm not perfectly happy with Groin Redbeard's open agreement with both me and Lommy.

Yup, I noticed something similar. Groin, though he is just finding his way in the arena, seems too quick to side with some strong players - a thing a newbie wolf (the more with no prior discussion and advices from his older mates!) could do.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Isa and LG

[The Might]

Aha, just found a post in the Admin thread I somehow missed and so now I know how it works.

So... it is really not important who you vote toDay right?
While I can on hand see how a vote could help us perhaps find a culprit I don't think it's the same a vote where someone will be lynched as there is nothing at stake.
So... I can't really say who is suspicious since it is easy for wolves to defend themselves as they don't have to try and defend any others from their pack.

Now, my own thoughts to this loud/quiet thing.
I must admit that in my first WWs I did always consider quiets more suspicious and louds rather helpful then furry and I still stick to this, but this doesn't really matter that much to me anymore.

I know myself there can be many reasons why a player is simply not able to say much on the first Day and so I'm not going to concentrate too much on it all.

Btw, you know what just came to my mind?
After all the twists and turns last WW I think we might be seeing something similar here as well.
I mean, after all the wolves don't do anything, nor do the gifteds.
My humble theory is that we were all made innocents (that somehow makes it much harder to see any wolvishness in one's playing style) and that the roles really will only be PMed later before the first Day begins.
Don't know if Volo is capable of such evil deeds , but it seems to be an interesting idea...