Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Everyone else seems so vanilla in comparison that I'm having trouble forming opinions or focus on any of them. At least not after slogging through posts for a solid hour and a half.

Stop, stop, the popularity contest won't be fun if there's such a clear favourite.

Sometimes that's what Werewolf is; so don't complain to me when you're hanging there.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Stop, stop, the popularity contest won't be fun if there's such a clear favourite.

Sometimes that's what Werewolf is; so don't complain to me when you're hanging there.

Hanging where?

[Cailín]

Yeah, wasn't clear about that, but didn't want to edit. I was referring to the big village tree.

Actually, Diamond does seem to be hiding behind a bit of bluster. Let me just go and investigate her in more depth.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Yeah, wasn't clear about that, but didn't want to edit. I was referring to the big village tree.

Ah, I wasn't sure if you were being literal (threatening) or figurative.

But I am sure not to complain when I'm lynched. I like a good death scene.

And if you mount a successful campaign on me like you did to Nerwen, I shall laugh and laugh. Because being responsible for starting a bandwagon against two innocents in a row would make you the next lynch victim, to be sure. (Though, I'm really not that innocent.)

[Aganzir]

Lommy starts her Day 1 by saying that our primary duty is to find and lynch the wolves but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and if we think someone looks more like the EW than anyone looks like a wolf, she should be lynched. Well yes it all looks sensible and nice, but I honestly don't know whether it's because I have "decided" Lommy must be a baddie and therefore interpret everything in that light, or if it really is somehow too nice. Ok, maybe better I quote it.

Our primary duty is to find the wolves. If we find the EW, it's good, but it's not what we should be precisely aiming at. So, in my opinion, we should concentrate on finding wolves, but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and we should primarily lynch wolves, but if someone looks more like EW than anyone looks like a wolf, we should go on and vote him. Like Aunt Izzie and my dear big brother Mac said, there really is no contradiction here. I think it's more a question of priorities.

The "perfect opinion". It nicely covers every aspect of the who-should-be-looked-for thing and looks ah so sweet and innocent a wolf would love to look.

Lommy suggests the EW can be found by looking at how living people have treated the dead wolves. She says herself it's not much, and I'm quite inclined to agree with her. I am pretty sure the EW can play well enough not to look like she was somehow connected to the wolves, and if she doesn't reveal her identity to the wolves she shouldn't have a reason to worry about them either. However, innocent people may have - and most likely some actually have - treated the wolves so that it looks like they were in cahoots with them. The suggestion, however innocent it looks like, is likely to cause more harm than good (or then Lommy is just being very optimistic, which, mind you, is not characteristical for her).

Eek, I don't sit right with Lommy after one in character post in which I jokingly accused people on basis of their family relations or occupation. She explains her dislike for me with RL reasons:

This rather unchaste young girl, Aganzir, doesn't quite sit right with me. To be honest, something in her cheery and flirty manner annoys me. (I wonder if it's because I can imagine what sort of extremely irritating expression characteristic to her she is having when smirking behind her laptotp and typing. ) Normally, when she grabs my attention this way, she's innocent (she's more careful as a wolf, I think), but now my gut feeling tells me that might not be so. I'm keeping an eye on her.

She promises to keep an eye on me, and in her next post these RL reasons have become serious suspicion.

THE Ka seems a bit too confused to be a wizard, or a wolf either. But one should not forget how treacherous she can be...

I don't like comments like these. "She looks innocent but don't forget she can be treacherous and deceive you! Keep an eye on her! Don't let the innocent-looking pass!"
Wolves just want to create havoc, and one way is to confuse people by saying something like this.

Well, I'm not commenting on Volo's slip because it still baffles me (even though he did explain it - that explanation was a little fishy btw), but I don't certainly think there's anything wrong with Greenie pointing it out: I would have done that had I spotted it.

There again.
Somehow she seems to pick those she accuses and who defends in a nice way; disagrees with some loudmouths to a convenient extent, not enough to make them suspect her but enough not to look like she was trying to gain allies or be nice. And it's defending people that gives allies, not agreeing with them.

She cannot say exactly why I remind her of Agan-wolf who didn't know her fellows but there's "a freaky similarity".
I'd really like to know more about that "freaky similarity".

But if we better wolf candidates, I'm all for keeping her as she's quite sharp and can benefit us as much as her own team.

This quote just makes me nervous. I don't really know a certain reason but I'll try to elaborate.
"I know she's innocent/the EW wants her dead, let's see if I could get people to suspect her. If not I'll vote someone else, he-he, now I say this so no one really wonders if I drop my suspicion later."

Oh but this is a very good point. Where is her characteristic cheer and carelessness? Is it just because this so different from any other game she's played this far, or are there more sinister reasons behind this?

Someone already mentioned this but I want to bring it up again. I have more than once seen wolves phrase their suspicion like that, as a question that's just supposed to make people feel a bit uneasy. "Is it because of x, or could there be more sinister reasons?" I'm not saying innocents don't do it as well, but more rarely than wolves I think.

She seizes on McCab saying he will return with some more solid info. I guess I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of suspecting someone because of how something is phrased, but seizing on one single word is beyond even me.

Still, I do not advise you to trust my judgement of any of them. It is probably as biased and faulty as that of someone who does not know them as well as I do. In fact, Agan is better at fooling me than most other ww players I've played with.

Now this is true, and it's the only thing she could have said there because I would have complained otherwise.

She said if she doesn't have suspicions by the time she leaves, she will vote for a submarine. Well what was suspecting me then? Not a suspicion?

Then...

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes... I know I don't really enjoy him being around as he's mostly baffling and a nuisance but lynching him, I think, would be a mistake...

Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her? In the beginning it was all the same for her whether I'd be lynched or not and now she'd love to vote for me.

Then she could vote for me or Kath (whom she hadn't really mentioned if I remember correctly, too lazy to go back to check but she definitely hadn't suspected her).

Big yes to both. And she'd sell her soul to be the EW.

Ai ai ai. If you want to know, I do have the time, I volunteered for the EW when Nog encouraged people to do so (mightn't have otherwise), wasn't chosen and that's it. And I'm just happy I wasn't since when I think about it I'm really not sure if I could have handled it.

And you've said that so many times that it starts to be a suspicious statement, especially now as you're really only in a tiny danger of actually getting lynched.

I don't consider having the second most votes "a tiny danger".

**

Lommy's points against me are taken out of thin air. It looks much more like a deliberate decision to start to suspect someone than actual suspicion because someone is suspicious - gradually switching from random IC reasons to gut feelings and then making my posts look suspicious.

Yes, I admit that I am suspicious of her because she is of me, but because I know I am innocent and her suspicion doesn't make sense (well and she hasn't been doing much else than accusing me so maybe it's understandable?).

I'm pretty positive Lommy isn't the EW though, she is too daring and suspicious to be that. I'd expect the EW to keep a bit lower profile and not looking so plain wolfish. A wolf with orders to create as much havoc and lynch as many innocents as possible, and maybe cover the EW & the other wolves' tracks. Just what I would have told Lommy if I had been the EW and picked her. Suits her nature well.

And good work Lommy, because I didn't even think you might be a wolf before you started accusing me.

I'm most probably going to vote for her today.

edit: xed since phantom's #411

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't really understand why you criticise me for using my knowledge of you.

Because you do it in a way that suggests you possessed the ultimate truth about my alignment and everyone should believe you. That's what kind of impression I get when I read your posts. And I don't like it.

I do not claim that! I definitely don't! I don't think that way!

Then why does it look like that?

Are you just annoyed that for once I have an inkling that you're evil, I'm not clueless once again? Or are you annoyed because I dare to suspect you more than probably ever before?

I am annoyed because your reasons are bad!

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.

edit: xed with him

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Lommy's points against me are taken out of thin air. It looks much more like a deliberate decision to start to suspect someone than actual suspicion because someone is suspicious - gradually switching from random IC reasons to gut feelings and then making my posts look suspicious.

Yes, I admit that I am suspicious of her because she is of me, but because I know I am innocent and her suspicion doesn't make sense (well and she hasn't been doing much else than accusing me so maybe it's understandable?).

I'm pretty positive Lommy isn't the EW though, she is too daring and suspicious to be that. I'd expect the EW to keep a bit lower profile and not looking so plain wolfish. A wolf with orders to create as much havoc and lynch as many innocents as possible, and maybe cover the EW & the other wolves' tracks. Just what I would have told Lommy if I had been the EW and picked her. Suits her nature well.

And good work Lommy, because I didn't even think you might be a wolf before you started accusing me.

I'm most probably going to vote for her today.

I've been re-reading the Lommy/Aganzir stuff and I find it quite interesting. At the risk of sounding stupid, I'm not quite sure why Aganzir got so many votes in the first 2 days. I mean, well done everyone with rounding on her, great result and all that! But I'm curious how we got there. I don't find what she posted all that suspicious.

Her argument against Lommy here looks good to me. Which raises doubts in my mind (which I know others among you already had) about Lommy's part in the lynching. I also don't understand why Lommy posted:

STOP TRUSTING MY JUDGEMENT ON AGANZIR!!!!!!!!!!

Or something similar. Weird thing to say. Very eager to direct the accusations but unwilling to take too much responsibility?

This often happens to those who bag a wolf, though. Instead of congratulations you get suspected!

That's why I'll be watching her. (Lommy will now also realise that her dynamic with Cailín has been altered due to the influence of Eomer, who ALWAYS suspects her. )

[Isabellkya]

In response to Brin, my vote was almost completely random. It was random out of the people whom I had an inkling of suspicion towards yesterDay - coupled with the fact that it was nearing deadline. Well what I thought was deadline, but alas I'd forgotten I'm in PDT not PST.

Pah. Just when I want to go away from phantom, I read one of his posts.. and he says something... mildly interesting.
..... "tear her post up like a piece of paper,' in reference to Roa.

I skimmed that lengthy post. I just want to chalk all of his (phantom's) shenanigans and theatrics to trying to do anything and everything, to be scried by both sides; though obviously not in the same Night.

Either way, I'm not entirely sure of Roa's and Phantom's innocent village intentions. Oh yes, they both have Village intentions, but I am doubting that they are for the good.

Originally Posted by Brin

Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.


X'd since the end of Page 11. Dear me, every time I think I'm caught up, another page and a half pops up.

[Durelin]

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

Put it in your signature. That will help.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm tired of hearing people say "at least one of these two are evil" and "if this person's evil the other one has to be evil"

Of course it's possible that the wolves know each other, or one's a wolf and one's the EW. But it's also possible that the wolves don't know each other and are attacking each other (or a wolf's attacking the EW). We can't suspect or disregard someone solely based on how they treated someone who has been proven innocent or guilty...

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.

A good point; unfortunately one which must be made in every werewolf game.