Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLIX - At the Source of Darkness

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

or you've done a nice job of reading my mind

Heh, of course! I'm the phantom! But then really if I could read minds the game would be over by now, so I suppose I can't claim that ability.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

For the record, I was going to kill Mith on Night Three, but my ISP went down before I could post

Okay, so I've got to know. Was I right about you back then? Had you indeed spotted the same thing that I did with Fea, me, and Mith? Did you think Fea was the Seer?

Originally Posted by me

Nerwen spotted it too, and Mith as well I believe- but I think both of them thought it was something slightly different. We'll see who's correct.

Originally Posted by me

Well, it turns out I was part wrong about what I thought I had spotted. But I was part right as well. I still believe Nerwen and Mith saw it as well and reacted to it. Now that we know that she was indeed a Cobbler, Mith's reaction makes perfect sense. Nerwen's reaction makes me think that she is innocent.

So was I right about that? Just curious.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Durelin

For Lord sakes, man, class comes before werewolf.

What world do you live in? I can recall skipping class many times to play WW.

But then I've never been much of a model student.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Okay, so I've got to know. Was I right about you back then? Had you indeed spotted the same thing that I did with Fea, me, and Mith? Did you think Fea was the Seer?

Yes, I did... or possibly a baddie paving the way for a false reveal.

[the phantom]

or possibly a baddie paving the way for a false reveal

Ah, yeah I suppose that could've been another option that people could've thought of. I think that I never considered that because of my familiarity with her. I just couldn't imagine her doing anything of that sort so early if that was indeed what she was up to. And I also don't think she'd use me as the fodder on something like that. We like to fight sometimes, but that would be just downright low.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by phantom

What world do you live in? I can recall skipping class many times to play WW.

It may come as quite a blow to many, but I'm afraid I save up my absences for more important things...

I'm really finding it hard to think of Lommy and phantom as guilty. Lommy would be more focused and technical as a wolf I think. phantom...I don't know. I don't feel like lynching him, and haven't for a while now.

So that leaves just two people, how convenient. But I don't want to vote yet, that could be dangerous.

I may not be able to be around near the deadline once again though, I'm afraid - this time because I am hoping to see a very close friend before she heads off to school several states away.

So...Nerwen...do you find anyone guilty? K thx.

[Durelin]

What I'm wondering is if Shasta would want to leave phantom around for the fun of it? I think phantom might want to leave Shasta around for fun. But what if those two really are the wolves...

Part of me says the 'safer' vote is Shasta, but I feel like Kath seems the most guilty. Both of them have been quite seriously considered as wolves/cobblers, but they are both still here.

phantom is still here. But people like to leave him around. For amusement, or for scaring people. (And he seriously doesn't fit with the wolf kills.) Would a Kath and Shasta pair?

Anyway...why Brinn? I guess because she wasn't seriously suspected pretty much at all except for my little bit yesterDay? Then why not Lommy...well, Brinn was 'quieter'...hrmm.

I ramble...it's late...I need sleep.

[the phantom]

It may come as quite a blow to many, but I'm afraid I save up my absences for more important things...

There are things more important than online games?

I think phantom might want to leave Shasta around for fun.

Yeah, if it weren't for the fact that he's pretty much guaranteed to vote for me. If it were up to me I would do away with him and just try and explain the kill away the next day as an attempted frame-up.

What I'm wondering is if Shasta would want to leave phantom around for the fun of it?

I can't speak for what Shasta would do. I don't believe I've ever played with him as a WW before. Though logic says that if he thinks he can get me lynched he might as well leave me I suppose.

Anyway...why Brinn?

Oh, yeah, I forgot to talk about that earlier. The Brin kill seemed a bit weird to me as well. I figured for sure that Shasta and I would be left for today as a dueling pair and that you and Brin would be left as a dueling pair (because you both suspected each other yesterday and you even voted for her).

I can only assume that the WWs had reason to suspect Brin of being the Assassin. (unless of course you're a WW and didn't want to be in a dueling pair )

[Nerwen]

the phantom –I've been inclined to believe him innocent throughout the game, but that's partly because he seems to think along the same lines as me. As he says himself, he's probably clever enough to guess what I'm thinking and fake it.

Durelin –Feels rather evil... but she always does, to me. Her weak suspicions of me on previous Days could be a wolf seeing if she could start something... but then her explanation toDay makes sense (or is it a case of, "well, she would say that, wouldn't she?"). She has made some useful suggestions, like (after Nilp) warning gifteds to ignore false reveals... and she was the first person to suggest Mith might be a cobbler. [conspiracy theory: phantom-wolf and Wolfelin picked Mith as a cobbler, all right, and killed her as a double-bluff.]

Lommy –seems fair, votes foul. Bad luck... or something more?

Kath –Has been on my hit-list since her interesting post on Day Three. (The one where she theorises than the Seer dreamed a wolf each Night and chose not to give any clear indication.)

Shasta –After re-reading his posts, he comes across even more strongly as a cobbler (and would-be lynchee)... which we now know he isn't. So– a cobbler-impersonating wolf? Or a disaffected ordo, embittered by what happened to him last time? Has he had one of those mysterious insights that wildcard players seem to get?

EDIT: X'd with phantom and Durelin.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Durelin

So...Nerwen...do you find anyone guilty? K thx.

You understand that now I know less than everyone else? The rest of you know at least two innocents.

Look, I can see reasons to suspect everyone... but Kath and Shasta seem the worst, at least individually. I need to look over their interactions.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You understand that now I know less than everyone else? The rest of you know at least two innocents.

That is a good point to keep in mind. But at the same time at least we know we can trust that you aren't slanting your thoughts and reads on people with misleading intent. So while we cannot necessarily trust your conclusions, we can trust your thoughts.

I've been inclined to believe him innocent throughout the game, but that's partly because he seems to think along the same lines as me. As he says himself, he's probably clever enough to guess what I'm thinking and fake it.

Heh heh. While that may be true, you can hardly say that I guessed about you and faked it after the fact on those events that I already explained before your reveal. For instance the whole Fea-Mith incident. I called that for what it was days before you revealed as the trusted Assassin.

I need to look over their interactions.

Yeah, I've been trying to look at possible partnerships, but I'm getting rather stumped there. The fact is you can spin something many different ways. I pointed out yesterday how Shasta had basically no links to anyone in the entire village except me. Then after that he came up with a list. I mean, it's hard to gain anything interaction-wise from that.

And if two people kind of ignore each other are they doing it to distance themselves, or when two people go after each other are they doing it to distance themselves? It can work both ways.

I'm done reading for right now, though. I've got to get ready for bed. I must be rested up for a whole weekend of backyard BBQs. Don't ya just love Labor Day weekend?

[Thinlómien]

First off, some relatives came here over the weekend so I can't participate as much as I would like to be. But I will do my best to be around more than just a little, seeing as this could be (is?) a crucial Day.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Jumping on the Fea-wagon Day 3 seemed suspicious to me, seeing as the rather obvious Form-Cobbler was the other option.

Yeah, but I wasn't sure he was a cobbler and I thought that if he was, he could be left to the Assassin.

Originally Posted by tp

But I don't like that she ran ahead and lynched her dad when he was sounding more and more innocent to me as the clock ran down. Surely she knows him better than I?

Really, no. I hate it that when people assume I should know my dad/sister/best friend in ww games. I really don't. In fact, they tend to be the best at fooling me.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Your Friendly Neighbourhood Assassin.

Thank you, Nerwie. I just became a little more hopeful. You see, this must be the first thing I have guessed correctly in this game...

Originally Posted by Durelin

Right now I feel Kath is the most wolfish, but I don't know... A very quiet Kath is normally a wolf, right?

Now that I think of it: a very quiet Kath = an evil Kath or a busy Kath. I don't know which one is this one...

Originally Posted by tp

I'm just trying to give my reasons for why I am able to have a certain level of suspicion for everyone. Meh- badly explained.

Now doesn't this sound like: "I'm just trying to give my reasons for why I could jump on any vote in order to win this game as a wolf"? But, yeah, I can understand his feelings. At this phase, I'm pretty paranoid too.

I don't really like this semi-consesus, but... I think Durelin looks the least guilty after myself and Nerwen. She sounds sincere enough and her attacks against Nogrod seem a tad too bold for a wolf. Kath, on the other hand, is probably a wolf, because she seems indeed rather fishy. Her fellow is then Shasta or tp, which one, I don't know. If I had to bet, I'd say Shasta, but I don't really know. Could be either. I haven't ruled out the possibility of a Shasta-tp duo, but you know, if they're wolves together, maybe they even deserve to win for giving us such a great show? Aieee, I don't really know. Maybe I too will look for partnerships. Maybe that would help. Because the only connection I can remember is how Shasta and tp treat each other - a rather peculiar connection - but I'm not sure what to make of it. Maybe another whole village reread would do good for me... if I just have time.

Wolves, please, would you help us a little and start doing something very suspicious...? You know, you can afford that, you've fooled us quite well this far...

But hey, folks, we can always take this Day as a great challenge. I, for one, enjoy them...

[Nerwen]

Here's everything Kath has said this game, in one convenient, easy-to-read post (minus some emoticons):

Kath, Day Two.

Originally Posted by Kath

Well, now I've got my brain in gear, hello! Just posting to let you know I am actually around toDay because I need to disappear and post for an RPG quickly and then I'll be back with you.

Originally Posted by Kath

I know that many of you hate it when I do this but as I saw nothing of yesterDay I need to get my thoughts in order which means, yes, a list. Though it's really a 'find the odd things' list so will appear completely biased.

Nog - rather pointless so far, and what's with that 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 list in which everything useful in it could be said in one paragraph making it much easier to read?! Don't know whether he was trying to be warning or inflammatory with that narration quote about the cobblers, the fact that it specifically said it was too dark for them to see each other seemed obvious. My suspicion would be that right now they can't see each other ... but perhaps if they're left alive long enough they will eventually be told who the others are, thus making them a 'better' enemy.

phantom - I am intrigued by the niceness of his first post. But as I'm ill equipped to deal with two Werewolves all on my own, it is currently in my best interest to work with you guys to lynch them. Does that really sound like the phantom we all know?

Durelin - a little bit of stating the obvious.

Eonwe -

Gwath -

Form -

Lalaith -

Groin - says to beware of those who are very loud, after mentioning at the beginning of his post that he is quiet.

Nerwen -

Shasta -

Brinn -

Lommy - 'two wolves are easy to find' is an interesting thing to say, I would have thought the fewer wolves there are the harder they are to find.

Mith -

Nilp -

Greenie -

One thing I will say outside all this. Don't underestimate a Cobbler. Alright, so my experience with them is very different to most as I owe my win in one game to a very impressive Cobbler attack, but that just proves the point. The wolves are the main target it's agreed, but the Cobblers may not be as unthreatening as some people seem to think.

Gah, I have to go out, this is as far as I've got which is why it looks quite so unfinished. I'm at post 60 of Day 1 at the moment, I'll finish it off when I get back.

Originally Posted by Kath

Oh, well I was going to do Day 2 but due to a misunderstanding I have no dinner and so must go and get myself some and then I'm leaving for some socialising. Therefore I have to vote now:

++LOMMY

I have little reasoning for any of those I found suspicious yesterday but I have been keeping up with the thread toDay. She was really quite overly cross I think at an early point and while she hasn't dropped her suspicion of Nogrod it hasn't been mentioned except in one post unlike yesterDay when she was quite vocal about it. I admit it was a close run thing between her and Nog but then I always, always find Nog suspicious so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Day Three.

Originally Posted by Kath

Right, quick post before I disappear for a few hours because we have people visiting.

Fea - the rule has always been that so long as the number of Cobblers doesn't equal the number of innocents the village wins.

Also, on Gwath, I think he dreamt of phantom and found him wolvish. He might also have dreamt of Fea. Though he did add that 'if' statement to indicate being unsure it's the most concrete thing we had from him apart from those two Innocent coments which are odd. If Gwath thought through (or noticed) the caveat that Cobblers would appear as innocents in the narration then no way can the Innocent bits mean anything. If not then yeah, he dreamt of those he called Innocent. I can't believe though that our Seer would fail to notice this, so I'm going with my original assumption.

Truly, this is not just me going 'oh it's the phantom, let's kill him', which I admit is my usual reaction to him playing. He hasn't annoyed me in any way, his overbearingness has actually seemed less overt than usual, he's been a nicer guy than I'm used to. I doubt he's simply mellowed, ergo he's a wolf. Well, that's my reasoning anyway. But really, who are you going to dream of as a Seer when you have phantom and Fea, masters at playing you for a fool? Thought so.

Originally Posted by Kath

Oh go on then, lynch me.

Nah don't, I'm having a rather nice time. Been a while since I've lived, perhaps I'm high on the experience. Anyway, phantom, I never said that Gwath was stupid, I don't believe that's true, I was in fact defending him against those who said he'd list people he'd dreamt of as Innocent. As to him dreaming of two wolves and not saying anything, ok, I didn't think that through. But in that case, you're a wolf and he hadn't yet dreamt of Fea - sorted.

If this is annoying you then you have my apologies, I seem to have no desire to play in my usual style, it's so boring.

Day 4

Originally Posted by Kath

Brinn, Nog and Lommy started a very late bandwagon against Fea yesterday. I had wondered where it had come from when I discovered she'd be lynched. They're going on and on about not having a flurry of last minute voting and bandwagons and there they go and do the exact same thing. I don't think they're suspicious for voting for her, she was second on my list, but I think the manner of it most odd.

Ah, and to answer something from Nog yesterDay. Just because I'm not suspecting you doesn't mean anything. With phantom, Fea and Nilp in the game you barely got my attention in terms of automatic suspicion. Now, however, after yesterDay, you've got it. Brinn too actually, more so than Lommy for some reason though I'm not sure why.

Originally Posted by Kath

Durelin, I'm quite pleased that you think my posts usually contain anything helpful. Generally I get condemned for merely analysing. I am playing a different style and it is far more fun. Clearly not very accurate though as I was totally wrong on Fea. However, given that, I still think our main suspects must lie in the last minute flurry of voting that ended up with her death. That's not to say though that they must be those who voted for her. I think it's likely, but there were others there.

Now, you can probably see where I'm going with this and that's back to phantom. I see I have an ally here in Shasta, but I wish I didn't because his arguments and reasoning are just bizarre. phantom wanted to save Fea, hardly a surprise. To save Fea he voted Form, again not a surprise as he's insisted Form is a cobbler for some time. I don't understand what Shasta has taken from this. What I take from it is that phantom played a very nice double blind and is a wolf.

Apart from all that Nog is firmly on my radar now. Going back over the voting I found that quote in which he basically says 'tell me who to vote for' and also, in saying he might be willing to lynch Fea, made a bandwagon more likely. I'm not sure though whether he'd be wolf or cobbler.

That's what I'm thinking right now. I may have to vote a little early and if I do it will be for one of those two.

Originally Posted by Kath

Alright, I need to vote now.

++NOGROD

I was determined that it was to be phantom but he just has to go and make a reasonable point. I'm going to look at that Mith thing very, very carefully.

Day Five.

Originally Posted by Kath

I don't have much to say right now as I'm falling asleep but I'm beginning to think that I should start voting against my own suspicions as they're clearly so utterly wrong. That said, Greenie had gone unnoticed by me and turned out to be evil, so I'm thinking of looking at who I haven't really paid much attention to and actually doing so. This new way of playing is fun but it's not actuall doing anyone any good so maybe I'll go back to the old way for a Day and try to be of some real help.

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm very sorry, I intended to be around for much more of the Day but it ran away from me and now I have to go fetch my sister from karate in about 10 minutes and will therefore miss the deadline.

But, now, I'm going to concentrate here and try to really work out what I'm feeling about each person. Not based on specific quotes or anything but just what I've got from seeing their posts as I read through.

Shasta - well I can sort of see phantom's point about him not really ... being there I suppose. I mean there are plenty of posts but not much if the way of things that drag him into the limelight, at least apart from his battle with phantom. However, the fact that he is at least consistent with that suspicion makes me feel more secure with him. Or at least it would if that wasn't a trick I've employed on more than one occasion.

Eonwe - I just don't know. I can't, it's like, I mean I have paid attention to him and I've read his posts and on occasion I've thought 'hmm, good point' but he's a master at flying under the radar.

Nerwen - the fact that I have little opinion on her is what worries me the most here. Nerwen quiet? I don't believe it. I'm beginning to think though that we have quiet wolves. I mean why not? If you know the Cobblers are in the village taking the suspicion for you. I have a feeling though that some of that is RL-related, plus she was her normal argumentative self toDay.

Durelin - did come over as a very frustrated innocent, but there was a post by here early today, basically a 'this is why I'm not evil' post and the end of that really caught my attention and suspicion. A pre-defence wasn't necessary, no one has put any real pressure on her, so I wasn't keen on that.

Brinn - ah Brinn! What to do here? I read one post and think she's innocent, I read another and think she's guilty as hell. And I can't decide which. It makes me think she might be Cobbler rather than wolf but it does make me think she's evil.

phantom - he's evil damn it! Except of course that he's probably not. It's a terrible thing to admit to but I would quite happily lynch him for the pleasure of ridding myself of the unsurety. I'm still thinking over that point he made about Mith. The problem is that while it makes perfect sense I still believe him capable of finding a way around it.

Lommy - again comes across wrong somehow. Though I'm really not sure about this one as I don't know where that feeling has come from. I would have to take a proper look at her I think. Hmm actually I know what it is, she hasn't really come to a conclusion on anyone. I'm not sure it's doing us much good coming to a consensus as we've not managed to lynch a baddie yet, but she's just refusing to commit. Except for Nerwen - interesting that as there's no reasoning.

Hmm, so right now I think I'd want to lynch everyone. Mostly I want to lynch phantom but I sincerely doubt I'm going to get any support there as it is an entirely unfounded suspicion. Behind that it's a fair tie between Lommy, Nerwen and Brinn.

++LOMMY

Because this isn't the first time this game she's popped up as suspicious to me. Maybe I should stick with my early suspicions. We'll see.

[Nerwen]

No. Post #596.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

First off, some relatives came here over the weekend so I can't participate as much as I would like to be.

EDIT: X'd with Durelin. I was replying to Kath.