Ulmo and the Ring War

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Feliandreka

Alright, I concede the unlikelihood that the Eagles came to the aid of Aragorn at the battle before the black gate. There is no relationship between Aragorn and the Eagles. But they did come for their own reasons to that battle and other battles. Whether they came on their own accord or they were guided by the Valar we may never know.

My objection to their appearance at the Morannon is only on a literary level. The only other appearance they make in the entire trilogy is when Gandalf is rescued from Orthanc. Then, suddenly, they appear at the Battle of the Black Gates.

I'm not a published author, and certainly am I no J.R.R. Tolkien. But every creative writing class I ever took cites deus ex machina as anathema. The eagles at Morannon are reminiscent of the cavalry making its first appearance in a western film to help the besieged pioneers... at the very climax of the story.

I wish Tolkien had simply left them out of that scene.

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

My objection to their appearance at the Morannon is only on a literary level. The only other appearance they make in the entire trilogy is when Gandalf is rescued from Orthanc. Then, suddenly, they appear at the Battle of the Black Gates.

I'm not a published author, and certainly am I no J.R.R. Tolkien. But every creative writing class I ever took cites deus ex machina as anathema. The eagles at Morannon are reminiscent of the cavalry making its first appearance in a western film to help the besieged pioneers... at the very climax of the story.

I wish Tolkien had simply left them out of that scene.

And when Gandalf is "rescued" from the peak of Zirakzigal and then carried to Lothlorien. It seems all of these involve something beyond the Eagles just patrolling the skies and randomly coming across Gandalf. Either the Eagles are hearing something directly from Manwe, or more likely, they communicate telepathically with Gandalf (Manwe's emissary in Middle Earth). In this regard, not perhaps a Deux ex Machina in the same sense that this term is usually used...

[Eönwë]

For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his
government; so that the elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all
the veins of the world.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well, at least for the Sea of Núrnen, my personal belief is that this was a place where he really didn't have much, if any influence. Not only was it as close to Sauron as it could, but it was also an inland sea with seemingly no connection to the Belegaer. So no rivers, no flows connecting its waters to the Great Sea - it was probably a lake whose waters, from most part, evaporated and that was the only way the water got away from there.

But if Ulmo is the Lord of All waters, would he be able to control rain and such? Would the spirit of Ulmo run in all the actual veins of living beings? Would that give him absolute control?

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

I have wondered if this is because of their aversion to something as inherently clean and pure as free-flowing water, or if it still contains traces of Ulmo's presence, which they might well have reason to fear.

Wouldn't the two be connected? Water is "unmarrable" (well, almost) because of Ulmo. Ulmo's spirit can live on in water without it actually having to "contain traces of his presence" as you put it.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

He was not afraid of water. Whether the water did have any effect on him is a completely different question (and in the end, it indeed had... ). He may still have felt a little dizzy or uncomfortable in the water, like somebody who has an allergy or something, but he was not afraid - for what reason in particular, we don't know. He may have been simply more rational person than the others

Considering that his main weapon is fear, you might have something there...

As for the eagles, I think that most of what they did they did themsleves, but I agree with Legate in that they probably got a little nudge from Manwe in things such as the Black Gate.