were wolves

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

When it comes to Middle-earth, creatures called werewolves are simply wolves with wit, maybe even the ability to speak; wolves inhabited by spirits. Therefore I am against the idea of Beren becoming a werewolf. He was still a human, he was still Beren - he just looked like a wolf. When he spoke, he didn't sound like a wolf. He didn't crave for raw meat and bloodshed.

I am not claiming to have the answer, but if it is as you say then why do we encounter wargs in the hobbit and not werewolfs?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I am not claiming to have the answer, but if it is as you say then why do we encounter wargs in the hobbit and not werewolfs?

What made werewolves different from normal wolves, what made them special, elite troops, was the spirit which inhabited them - at Morgoth's orders. Why would a random lesser Maia in the Third Age want a wolf host? How many werewolves do we know of? Nay, I don't think they were that usual even in the First Age.

And did the wargs really speak? This is not a rhetorical question - I just don't remember.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

[QUOTE]And did the wargs really speak? This is not a rhetorical question - I just don't remember.QUOTE]

In the children's book, TH, they do, but that's not to
say JRRT thought so in the greater world of ME.

He (the warg leader) spoke to them in the
dreadful language of the Wargs. Gandalf understood
it. Bilbo did not, but it sounded terrible to him...I will
tell you what Gandalf heard, though Bilbo did not
understand it. ...This was dreadful talk to listen to...
So the Wargs had no intention of going away and letting the
people up the trees escape, at any rate before morning.
And long before that, they said, goblin soldiers
would be coming down from the mointains; and goblins
can climb trees, or cut them down.

[Aganzir]

Oh yes, but also animals in this world can communicate - body language, smells, such... And there are people who claim to understand "animal languages". Wargs didn't seemingly speak in any human language, which werewolves apparently could do.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Since the events of The Hobbit is reffered to in LotR, I think it should be regarded as good a guide to ME as LotR. . .

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh yes, but also animals in this world can communicate - body language, smells, such... And there are people who claim to understand "animal languages". Wargs didn't seemingly speak in any human language, which werewolves apparently could do.

No it was not a human language. . . It was a warg language! Anyways Tolkien makes it clear that they talk and not just comunicate via body language and so on, so I think you are grasping at straws.

Anyways we are getting way off track are we not? (my fault I know)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Anyways we are getting way off track are we not? (my fault I know)

Perhaps, though, it is not getting off track at all. It is a good method of philosophy to try and determine what a thing is by determining what it is not.

It is, however, also a good philosophic practice to distinguish between traits of the subject in question that are necessary to it, or essential, and what is just accidental (not in the sense of being mere chance, but in the sense of non-essential... like my eyeballs. They aren't essential to my existence, but they aren't just haphazardly associated with me. But I digress).

In this vein, I'll note that while it does seem to be a valid point to note that the Wargs speak their own tongue, speaking any sort of tongue at all is not a trait limited to lupine species, but seems to be a bit more common in Middle-earth. There is, of course, the dubious fox that passes by the sleeping Hobbits, but there's also the Eagles, and, possibly, the Mearas. The relationship between Eorl and Felaróf, if not including any speech, certainly includes communication.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

In this vein, I'll note that while it does seem to be a valid point to note that the Wargs speak their own tongue, speaking any sort of tongue at all is not a trait limited to lupine species, but seems to be a bit more common in Middle-earth. There is, of course, the dubious fox that passes by the sleeping Hobbits, but there's also the Eagles, and, possibly, the Mearas. The relationship between Eorl and Felaróf, if not including any speech, certainly includes communication.

In The Hobbit, if I remember correctly, the Wargs spoke a snarling, growling, guttural language that only Gandalf could understand (while he was up in the trees with Bilbo and the Dwarves).

In regards to speaking, sentient creatures in Middle-earth, one needs to add Huan the Hound, the dragons, and several bird species (the crebain reported to Saruman, the ravens to the Dwarves and even Bard had a chat with a bird who got valuable info from elsewhere).

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We have wolves and Wargs, and Werewolves who are actually spirits in wolf form, and traditional werewolves -- which the original poster was asking for.

It's all a bit confusing.

Considering Tolkien's affinity with northern myths, I'm sure he held the wolf in high regard. Also taking into account the etymology of 'Warg' (check the Faroese in the signature ) it seems fair to say that Wargs and wolves are not separate things.

There are no documented traditional werewolves: whether involving changing shape at the full moon or utilising a magic wolf-hide.

There are particular and generally potent spirits who are placed into the Warg form. See The Silmarillion.

So, two groups.

But, as has been pointed out by Tuor, the tale of Beorn should give anyone enough scope to write about a traditional werewolf in Middle-earth.