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Old 10-21-2008, 04:25 AM   #1
Aganzir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin View Post
Still, it is interesting that the theme of a sort of
"shape shifting" exists in all three ages, Sauron
in the Second Age and Beorn in The Third,
plus, of course, Luthien, Beren,
and Sauron in The First.
Sauron is a bit special case when it comes to this, being a powerful Maia and all and having therefore the Ainur's ability to choose his appearance, at least in the beginning. Lúthien has Maian blood in her veins which kind of explains the "magical" things she did, but as for Lúthien and Beren's entering Thangorodrim, they hadn't actually turned into a wolf and a bat, only dressed up in their hides. Lúthien deserves some credit for making them fit, though.

Quote:
And exactly what is to be made of the wargs
attacking The Fellowship between Caradhras
and Moria and their bodies vanishing?
I have always thought the living wolves or some other creatures just cleared up the mess, and Gandalf's remark about they being no ordinary wolves pointed merely at their calculation and cunning - or, even simpler, to the fact a pack of wolves attacked a considerable number of people in the first place.
Or maybe the crebain came and ate them.
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Old 10-21-2008, 05:36 AM   #2
Rune Son of Bjarne
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Originally Posted by Aganzir View Post
Sauron is a bit special case when it comes to this, being a powerful Maia and all and having therefore the Ainur's ability to choose his appearance, at least in the beginning. Lúthien has Maian blood in her veins which kind of explains the "magical" things she did, but as for Lúthien and Beren's entering Thangorodrim, they hadn't actually turned into a wolf and a bat, only dressed up in their hides. Lúthien deserves some credit for making them fit, though.
In some mythology that is exactly what a werewolf is. . . a person who wears the skin of a wolf. Not as a fur or coat of course, when they put this on they would actually "become" a wolf. This seems an awful lot like what Luthien and Beren did. . .
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Old 10-21-2008, 11:56 AM   #3
Aganzir
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In some mythology that is exactly what a werewolf is. . . a person who wears the skin of a wolf. Not as a fur or coat of course, when they put this on they would actually "become" a wolf. This seems an awful lot like what Luthien and Beren did. . .
Which doesn't mean that everybody else could do it as well in Middle-earth. As far as I understand it, the hides they wore were not magical but it had to do with Lúthien's powers that they "became" a wolf and a vampire. So a wolf's hide to wear wouldn't make an RPG character a werewolf.
And although that was what werewolves were in some mythologies, I wouldn't go so far as to call Beren a werewolf because of his little wolf experience, since that was clearly not the concept of werewolves in Middle-earth.
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Old 10-21-2008, 04:42 PM   #4
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White-Hand

While Tolkien almost seems at times to delight in
ambiguity (usually with excellent effect) the case of being a
werewolf/wearing a skin of one, etc. is open to
interpretations:
Quote:
Beren became in all things like a werewolf
to look upon, save that in his eyes there shone a spirit
grim indeed but clean; and horror was in his eyes as
he saw upon his flank a bat-like creature clinging with
creaqsed wings. Then howling under the moon he
leaped down the hill, and the bat wheeled and
fluttered above him.
That seems rather more then the Middle-earth equivalent
of wearing a Halloween costume and perhaps more "becoming"
a werewolf.

And for what it's worth, here's a Wikipedia article on the subject.
Quote:
Werewolf (Middle-earth)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In J. R. R. Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium, werewolves were servants of Morgoth, bred from wolves and inhabited by dreadful spirits (fallen lesser Maiar[citation needed] or fëa of Orcs).

They were thought of by Sauron, who was their master and took the shape of a great wolf himself at least once. The Middle-earth werewolves were not shapeshifters like the werewolves of European mythology — they were always in the form of beasts,[citation needed].or at least partially so. The name werewolf appears to have been chosen because they were in essence sentient (but evil), and thus had a status beyond that of normal wolves.

The first werewolf was Draugluin, and the greatest werewolf was Carcharoth, the guardian of Angband, a descendant of Draugluin as all other werewolves were. Huan the Hound of Valinor, while also sentient, was not a werewolf.

It is probable that the Wargs of the Third Age were descended from the werewolves, as these wolves could speak, suggesting they had fëa. Another possibility is that Sauron attempted to recreate the werewolves after his return to Middle-earth, and that the Wargs were the result. In Battle for Middle-Earth II:Rise of the Witch King, the faction of Angmar has a power called the "Shade of the Wolf" which when cast, summons a giant ghost of a Were-Wolf under the caster's control.
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:41 PM   #5
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But what is a werewolf? A person who has actually turned into a wolf via some strange metamorphosis, or just a person wearing a wolf skin? Does being a werewolf require a mischievous and bloodthirsty mind, or does just being a wolf in appearance suffice? I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in most mythologies lycanthropes can't control themselves and become violent on turning into wolves.

When it comes to Middle-earth, creatures called werewolves are simply wolves with wit, maybe even the ability to speak; wolves inhabited by spirits. Therefore I am against the idea of Beren becoming a werewolf. He was still a human, he was still Beren - he just looked like a wolf. When he spoke, he didn't sound like a wolf. He didn't crave for raw meat and bloodshed.
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:39 PM   #6
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When it comes to Middle-earth, creatures called werewolves are simply wolves with wit, maybe even the ability to speak; wolves inhabited by spirits. Therefore I am against the idea of Beren becoming a werewolf. He was still a human, he was still Beren - he just looked like a wolf. When he spoke, he didn't sound like a wolf. He didn't crave for raw meat and bloodshed.
I am not claiming to have the answer, but if it is as you say then why do we encounter wargs in the hobbit and not werewolfs?
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Old 10-23-2008, 01:57 PM   #7
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I am not claiming to have the answer, but if it is as you say then why do we encounter wargs in the hobbit and not werewolfs?
What made werewolves different from normal wolves, what made them special, elite troops, was the spirit which inhabited them - at Morgoth's orders. Why would a random lesser Maia in the Third Age want a wolf host? How many werewolves do we know of? Nay, I don't think they were that usual even in the First Age.

And did the wargs really speak? This is not a rhetorical question - I just don't remember.
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