Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Rikae]

We seem to have a smart ranger. I wonder if the ranger noticed what I noticed today. I certainly hope so.
On another note:
I did a double take at Nogrod's first post - I found it very hard to believe Nogrod would make such an error. I thought it had to be a bluff (although with the second post too, it borders on unsporting to feign ignorance in that way). If he's still alive toMorrow, he's going to look very suspicious (but since he probably won't be, meh).
Gwath, you can vote for me, but you can't stop me from playing the way I like. I'll throw jokes in wherever I feel like it, in this game, and the next, and the next... actually, I probably won't be able to play in the one after the next, but anyway. Actually, your second point about me is quite good, except that I'm not actually that clever. Or maybe I don't think you are all that stupid. Or something.
Macalaure is looking better to me, primarily because of his reactions to accusations and the fact that he seems more calm. However, I'm not going to completely trust him - lately his wolf skills have been improving in every game, and in the last, he was able to avoid his usual wolfish nervousness.
Gollum is on my reindeer in a major way and I may just vote for him myself. McCaber is also a nasssty little hobbit (these days, however, the idea of casting a vote for Mc-anything gives me the heebie jeebies ( at Gwath)). Eomer and Brinniel both have somewhat of a sneaky feel about them - I'll look over their posts again if I have the time.

EDIT: X'd with Groin -now, that's lazier than lazy. If we really have so few baddies, we can afford to just lynch him and be rid of him, right? He may even be hiding beneath the lazy act.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I assumed I'd take my exam, defend my term paper proposal, put together my midterm portfolio (and hand it in) and get back and be utterly mystified as to what's going on due to the flurry of activity I've missed.

Except I haven't missed much.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I found it very hard to believe Nogrod would make such an error. I thought it had to be a bluff (although with the second post too, it borders on unsporting to feign ignorance in that way).

I found that hard to believe as well, but I find it harder to believe that he'd sit around for over a half hour waiting to fake-correct his 'faulty' logic while at any point during that time somebody could come along and make him look guilty as sin.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, ok! I had an idea during class. We might be able to figure out whether or not Nogrod is of the enemy.

Obviously, he is not a member of one of the two (am I assuming too much?) lover pairs - the one that tried to kill him. He may be part of the other group, though, the one that killed Kitanna. And, an analysis of his stance towards Kitanna while she was alive might help us figure out whether or not this could be the case.

I will make an effort to do this later this evening, if no one else does so first, but right now I have to go do some schoolwork that's due in a couple hours.

Also, at the risk of becoming a one-trick pony, I will defend Nogrod on YET another issue: I did not find his earlier self-correction particularly suspicious. I think it seems characteristic, well-intentioned, and honest.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Ok, ok! I had an idea during class. We might be able to figure out whether or not Nogrod is of the enemy.
......
And, an analysis of his stance towards Kitanna while she was alive might help us figure out whether or not this could be the case.

I will make an effort to do this later this evening, if no one else does so first

Okay. Just don't use your energies on that, anyone of you. Try to be sensible, people.

I know it's easier to look at something that has been discussed a lot than try to figure out totally new openings, but sorry guys that's what we need to do now, to find new openings. We haven't lynched a single baddie and our numbers are falling rapidly.

Look: one of the lover-teams tried to kill me last Night and were denied it. Do you think they would pick a different victim for the next Night now as they know I can't be protected any more? Do you think they say: "Well, we missed a kill last Night as he was protected but toNight he will not be protected... hmmm, what to do? Heck, let's leave him be and let's risk another failure"? So I'm a goner already just on borrowed time to the end of this Day. I understand you have no reason to believe I'm innocent (though you should... ) but that doesn't matter toDay. I know this may sound awkward but think about it and be reasonable: all the effort you spend on analysing or discussing me toDay is hurting our effort of getting a lover-pair for us which we need to start doing pronto.

I try to do what I can toDay. If you're not willing to trust me toDay you can look at my posts toMorrow with the knowledge of my innocence.

So let's concentrate on things that can actually help us.


And btw. it's like in great novels or movies that facing death one is able to speak his mind openly.

I admit I have been a bit careful with some people this far as I both like to play with them and I do know from experience that suspecting most of the people at the same time will easily lead one to a premature death. But now as the grave is already laid I can speak what I actually think with no self-preservation in mind and with no hope of getting a chance to analyse them better at some future date and to have fun with it then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I agree that we should leave Nogrod alone for today.

BUT, I'm also finding Gwath's rabid defense of him to be... wacky.

[Rikae]

Gwath, Nogrod's right - there isn't much point in looking at him - except in the strange event he's still alive toMorrow (after all, who knows what's going on here...). I just thought I'd mention something that jumped out at me.

Shasta... yeah, Gwath is wacky. I found his attack on me wacky to begin with, and his semi-retraction of it toDay more so. I don't see it as particularly wolfish, though... straightforwardly speaking, do you?

Oh, and since I seem to be in the position to be the first to mention it: happy Halloween, everybody. Even those of you in countries that lack it - I'm going to force this aspect of American culture down your throats! Mwahahahahahaha!

[A Little Green]

So sorry, dearies, RL is keeping me more busy than I thought. I'll try to get time to read and post and vote, but am not at all sure I'll be able to. If no, then good Night to everyone - if yes, then we'll see later on toDay...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Even those of you in countries that lack it - I'm going to force this aspect of American culture down your throats! Mwahahahahahaha!

Agreed. I'll need to vote early tonight since I'm being forced to attend a party for most of the night...

I just have no idea who to vote for.

Groin - assumed innocent
Aganzir - dunno. probably innocent
Gollum - absolutely no idea. reindeer. worrisome for that reason.
Nogrod - probably innocent
Brinniel - no clue
Sally - forgot she was playing
Shasta - no clue
Gwath - presumed innocent
Rikae - not sure, leaning toward not-so-innocent
Mac - rational, but i fear him on principle. could go either way.
McCaber - no clue
Fea - I know my exact role. I'm pretty cool, I assure you.
Greenie - no idea
Eomer - where are you, my dear? I'm going to kill you for being quiet pretty soon.

See, this isn't good. I think the entire village is either innocent or invisible.

[Gollum the Great]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Fea - I know my exact role. I'm pretty cool, I assure you.

Are you hinting at something or what? I'll take it your joking, though.


Like Fea, I really can't make up my mind. Either the players are not showing themselves, or I can't accuse them of anything for want of evidence. I keep one or two under observation, but that's as far as my suspicions go.

Oh yeah. Agan, what was your case against me? I didn't have time yesterday or whenever it was to search for it, and I don't now. If you could possibly lay it out simply, aside from your other 5,000 posts, it would be a great aid for me to go into it.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Look: one of the lover-teams tried to kill me last Night and were denied it. Do you think they would pick a different victim for the next Night now as they know I can't be protected any more?

Ok that's true.

[Nogrod]

I'll be posting the voting-lists here so everyone can see them. Thanks to Brinn I only had to update the Day2 voting...

I have italicized the known innocents in the voting and underlined them from the final tally to make the tables more informative.

DAY1
Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gwath: ++Fea (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1)
Rikae: ++Aganzir (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Nogrod: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Shasta: ++Aganzir (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 2)
Brinn: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 4, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Sally: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 5, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)

Didn't vote: Groin, McCaber

DAY2
Greenie: ++Gollum (Gollum 1)
Eomer: ++Kitanna (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1)
Aganzir: ++Fea (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1)
Eönwë: ++Nogrod (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1)
Mac: ++Groin (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1)
Fea: ++Rikae (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Eonwe (Gollum 1, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 1, Eonwe 1)
Rikae: ++Gollum (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 1, Eönwë 1)
McCaber: ++Eönwë (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 1, Eönwë 2)
Gwath ++Rikae (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 2, Eönwë 2)
Gollum ++Eönwë (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 2, Eönwë 3)
Shasta ++Eönwë (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 1, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 2, Eönwë 4)
Brinn ++Fea (Gollum 2, Kitanna 1, Fea 2, Nogrod 1, Groin 1, Rikae 2, Eönwë 4)

Didn’t vote: Sally, Groin, Nogrod, Lalaith


And to add something I had not noticed before...

Originally Posted by Sally at the end of Day2

I don't feel comfortable voting toDay; I hope that's all right. I've been (sort of) reading the thread but haven't been comprehending a whole lot. Basically, I don't think it would be fair for me to shoot out a vote just for the sake of voting; it makes more sense to abstain for the Day and give myself a bit of a chance to catch up so I'll be better prepared (assuming I'm alive) toMorrow.

That kind of removes her as well aside from my top suspicions... (And if she's a baddie she does not merit the win. That's all I can say.)

Darn, I have already three "feeling innocents" from those not posting too much! We're doomed...

EDIT: corrected Gollum's votes.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

In defence of quiet players, there's a whole lot of stuff posted in this game, and not much of it has been interesting. Especially all those early accusations -- "Oh, this is SOOOO suspicious!" -- that made no sense whatsoever.

Forget it. I'm not going to post lots just because you guys have some sort of prejudice. Historically I've been in between loudmouth and medium. Generally if there's a busy village, like this one, I'll shut up and let everyone else slaver away.

And also, like a few others obviously, I've been very busy recently. I'd just like to remind some people that a player is not obliged to post more than once a day in normal werewolf games. I think this game is the same.

Anyway, I've seen Mac's arguments against me and I don't see how it's worth my bother. Anything can look suspicious in this game. If he wants to believe that I pre-emptively slew the supposed seer Kitanna then let him. It's sort of far-fetched, though not a crazy theory.

Nogrod, I am calculating. Thanks for noticing. I like surviving past the first couple of days.

I'll post again soon with thoughts on last night's actions.

[Gollum the Great]

Just pointing this out, Nogrod: In your Day 2 list you show me getting voted twice and then write me down as being voted once. I take it you just forgot.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

Just pointing this out, Nogrod: In your Day 2 list you show me getting voted twice and then write me down as being voted once. I take it you just forgot.

Thanks for pointing that out. It is now corrected. I just copy-pasted Brinn's table and upgraded it with the last votes not realising there was a mistake there... those things happen...

Also I'm feeling better with Eomer after his last post.

[EDIT: meaning the second last... not that his last one was bad either even if I think speaking of one still living as a dead one feels pretty weird!!!]

Looking at Brinn's post - if it was Shasta indeed - I'd not be surprised to find out Shasta and Sally were lovers. Although Sally's actions toDay make her look more innocentish than not. But if she is the lover and Shasta is the werecreature that might explain it? Shasta has been rreeaally active this time with little to say... a mark of having something interesting to do and trying to involve oneself but not too happy to actually risk anything?

Originally Posted by Brinn

While the protection of Nogrod cannot confirm whether he's innocent or not, I'm more inclined to believe the former.

Now why to say that? It has no significance whatsoever.

I can see it as a sign of goodwill or trust (and that's appreciated Brinn, if it be that, and that's an honest comment) but gamewise it has no meaning - unless it is that you are trying to create a general feeling about you "seeing already the innocentness" of the one innocent tomorrow gone - after you kill me the next Night that is? Okay, you're not the only one who has said that but check toMorrow all those who have done it.

EDIT: X'd with a host of posts -great, people are starting to play!

[McCaber]

Rikae - Happy Halloween indeed. One more excuse for uni students to party against the law and maybe almost riot. I love my town.

Nogrod - if you can do that for everyone, you have my complete respect. Even for whoever you choose, that's a task.

One thing I find a small bit weird is Gwath. I can understand coming on strong to defend someone, but I think that's almost overkill.

Greenie - have a good night then, at least.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Nogrod - if you can do that for everyone, you have my complete respect. Even for whoever you choose, that's a task.

I'm afraid I'm going to fall short on these expectations...

I mean Groin was the easiest one as I said.

I'm getting similar kind of vibes from Greenie as well. The problem though is that we don't know how many baddies we're after here: four, six, eight? If eight, we should remember there would be more baddies than goodies around and so one should suspect everything that moves and especially everything that doesn't...

And with regards to Greenie I do have to look back before saying anything more definite about her for she has been one of those flying completely under my radar this far.

Luckily the baddies are after each other as well... unless there is some twisted scenario laid by Di working behind our - I'd say justified - beliefs...

EDIT: X'd with Fea... and yes, happy Halloween to all!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by McCaber

One thing I find a small bit weird is Gwath. I can understand coming on strong to defend someone, but I think that's almost overkill.

It wasn't my fault! I wasn't even looking to defend him, but these thoughts kept presenting themselves in the most persuasive manner and I felt like I had to point them out.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Actually, your second point about me is quite good, except that I'm not actually that clever. Or maybe I don't think you are all that stupid. Or something.

The reason it is a flawed point is that if you were evil, you still couldn't be certain that Lommy was not also evil, i.e. she could be a member of an opposing lover pair.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Gollum

I haven't got the time to search through 10 long pages for 1 case against me.

Anybody else put off by this weird exchange?

[Gwathagor]

Just A Little.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Just looking through yesterday's Nogrod-related posts. Trying to understand why he was attacked. I mean, Nogrod? Loud, always in your face, guaranteed to start trouble and get lynched Nogrod? Doesn't make sense. Has to be a reason.

I can't see anywhere where he gives an indication of giftedness. Maybe he was killed because he was onto Mac and A Little Green.

His post #311. He also suspects Kitanna but she's obviously innocent. An important point here is that neither Mac or Greenie garnered a vote on Day 2. Maybe those two lovers thought Nogrod had sufficient power to bring them down on the next day, so they could quietly do away with him while the coast was relatively clear.

And this has nothing to do with Mac's vote for me, before anyone claims it. I'm not looking so much at behaviour; rather building theories from the few facts we have. Lo and behold, Mac's name was right there in Nogrod's post.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

I haven't got the time to search through 10 long pages for 1 case against me.

So you mean you haven't read those 10 pages at all, or have just skimmed over them, yet you suspect & vote people?

Here and here.

edit: xed with Nog

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Just looking through yesterday's Nogrod-related posts. Trying to understand why he was attacked. I mean, Nogrod? Loud, always in your face, guaranteed to start trouble and get lynched Nogrod? Doesn't make sense. Has to be a reason.

Not only was he attacked, but he was protected. It would be funny if he was also dreamed of, provided we have a seer-type role floating around. Not that I'm a proponent of the seer coming forward at this point to answer that question. Not unless you've got some useful information to give.

I'm thinking- he caught a few eyes at least. Maybe the lovers picked him because he was an easy kill: hard to trace somebody everybody's looking at. Much easier to ask questions about why a pair of lovers would want to kill Kitanna. Not that they're questions with answers, but can you see my point? If I was picking a 'wolf' kill, I'd pick somebody who'd cause harmless talk the next day. If I was Ranger, I'd pick the player it seemed most likely to me the 'wolves' would want. If I was Seer, I'd pick somebody I didn't think was going to die in the night. What good's a Seer dream of somebody who isn't alive?

Have Lovers games ever had Hunter characters? Could be amusing. Can you imagine a sort of Cupid figure chasing after bad guys in the night with a bow and arrow? It could be a sort of Romeo and Juliet thing: the Hunter dies and takes someone out with him. You know, Hunter's almost a lover role in itself. It would fit, in terms of theme.

Thoughts? The more I think on it, the more outrageous it seems, but hey... you never know.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I wouldn't agree with that, Fea. maybe it's just a mentality thing. Kitanna seems a very sensible kill to me. She's so conservative in these games, so level-headed. A good survivor, which makes her a good potential lover.

Nogrod? That's Lynch Mob Town that way, dearie. Argumentative; the spotlight loves him; he's practically a cobbler for these lovers. Unless it was a great, great bluff... but I doubt it.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Not only was he attacked, but he was protected. It would be funny if he was also dreamed of, provided we have a seer-type role floating around. Not that I'm a proponent of the seer coming forward at this point to answer that question. Not unless you've got some useful information to give.

I'm thinking- he caught a few eyes at least. Maybe the lovers picked him because he was an easy kill: hard to trace somebody everybody's looking at. Much easier to ask questions about why a pair of lovers would want to kill Kitanna. Not that they're questions with answers, but can you see my point? If I was picking a 'wolf' kill, I'd pick somebody who'd cause harmless talk the next day. If I was Ranger, I'd pick the player it seemed most likely to me the 'wolves' would want. If I was Seer, I'd pick somebody I didn't think was going to die in the night. What good's a Seer dream of somebody who isn't alive?

Have Lovers games ever had Hunter characters? Could be amusing. Can you imagine a sort of Cupid figure chasing after bad guys in the night with a bow and arrow? It could be a sort of Romeo and Juliet thing: the Hunter dies and takes someone out with him. You know, Hunter's almost a lover role in itself. It would fit, in terms of theme.

Thoughts? The more I think on it, the more outrageous it seems, but hey... you never know.

Oh, this was the post that made me initially wonder abut Fea. All the role talk caught my attention. It's from, um, Day 3, I think?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Oh, this was the post that made me initially wonder abut Fea. All the role talk caught my attention. It's from, um, Day 3, I think?

You and I seem to be on somewhat the same track. That's all I'll say.



Alternatively, if I'm correct, Gwath and Gollum each have a vote, just in case anyone was wondering. I'll go back and check to make sure, but I'm heading back to campus in a bit so I'll be gone for about an hour (Walmart run and getting ready to watch "Butterfly Effect" with a friend, if anyone's interested in my pathetic social life heh)