T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lari

Second option she is guilty, decided that to throw suspicion away from other wolves/wraiths she should sacrifice herself and be lynched.

In that case, at least one other wraith must have been under pressure yesterDay, because otherwise nothing would speak against attempting to survive as a team. If there's nobody in need of sacrifice, then there's no need to sacrifice, after all.

Who do you have in mind, Lari?

Originally Posted by Lari

I still have very little to go on with the posts, I still need to re-read things through, but is it always so bad to suspect Fea of anything?

I'm just noticing that you go from defending Fea, saying you have nothing to go on concerning her, and saying you would vote for her quite rapidly.

Originally Posted by Fea

I wanted to save Mac, and Dury was an easy target

I can't claim to be comfortable with this. Even when trying to save myself I at least try to lynch somebody who at least looks somewhat guilty, and not the first-best hapless victim.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Besides, she claims she didn't expect anyone to follow her vote, so how was she saving herself or Mac anyway?

Good point. I didn't notice that before.


Glad to amuse you, Lommy. I'm sure it will amuse you even more that I'm now more suspicious of her again.

Originally Posted by Rikae

First of all, like I said to Lari, I don't see how it sets her up.

It technically doesn't, but Nogrod's presence would have kept a lot of suspicion from going into her direction.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Secondly, if Fea is a wraith, she's a wraith who decided her time in the village was limited anyway, so she might as well go out in a blaze of glory, incriminating as many innocents as she could and making her companions look good.

Limited, yes, but making it one day longer is always desirable, so why needlessly shorten one's time?
Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

Originally Posted by Rikae

The most a living Nog would have done is offered a runner-up to Fea in lynchability

And why would the wraiths lynch somebody they had such a use for? Better to try to get Nogrod lynched toDay and let Fea go down toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not to mention Nog's death proves that it was possible for an ordo to be that mistaken, casting the whole bandwagon in a better light.

Durelin had six votes. I think it's self-evident that one innocent was in there.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

No she wouldn't. Not when she was already making suicidal, obviously evil moves like the one she made yesterDay.

Voting Durelin out of the blue, you mean?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not to mention Nog's death proves that it was possible for an ordo to be that mistaken, casting the whole bandwagon in a better light.

But no one never assumes a whole bandwagon to be evil. And if such a "better light" kill was to be made, why Nogrod? I think he would have got a bigger share of the spotlight than any of the others...

Originally Posted by Rikae

The most a living Nog would have done is offered a runner-up to Fea in lynchability, and he had a built-in excuse (Lommy's comment about drinking too much wine).

I doubt it would have worked... he would not have used it as an excuse himself, and I can tell you he did not drink that much (at least by the time I went to sleep ).

Originally Posted by Mac

Glad to amuse you, Lommy. I'm sure it will amuse you even more that I'm now more suspicious of her again.

Well now you baffle me.

[Rikae]

A look at the shady-she-penguin:


Post #41:


Looks very calculated, and caught my eye right off the bat. Summery: Setup looks good for the villagers, that's dangerous because we might be careless, so let's stop the banter and get serious, here, “maybe I'll start about that”: banterers are cobblerish, at least make some “useless and obvious “discussion of setting and roles instead.


So easy,calculated and safe.


#81 (I see Lommy also is a victim of the curse of always starting new pages !)


Lots of fluff about typos, horoscopes, “xe”, etc. Iffy suspicions toward Agan (mix of wolfish and innocent self), wishy-washy statement about Fea (“I quite like Fea's tactics...but it does also look like a terribly convenient way of wolfing around”). Niceness to newbies.


Lommy's still playing it very safe. I can't really judge her suspicion toward Agan, since it's based on knowing her really well. I suppose no one can really judge that suspicion, and it's unlikely to attract attention, making it quite a safe one.


Post #88


Calls Agan's question (about what weird stuff she says) “nit-picking dictatorship”. Kind of an odd reaction – has a bit of a wolf-on-wolf feel to it. Claims Ferny is no great threat and we shouldn't worry about him, insinuates Agan is Ferny for suggesting he is. A very sinister paragraph, as I pointed out earlier. Says pointing out Frodo-ish behavior helps the wolves (also misleading). Some defensive looking statements (“this looks suspiciously like a case”). Still, the way she goes after Agan – in two posts, first “weird stuff”, then elaborating, looks somewhat innocentish.


Post 91 – the “this end” phrasing in Mac's post. Honest mistake, I suppose, but could also be an honest-evil-mistake (looking for an easy lynch. She's been very focused on finding wolf-slips in this game).

- several short responses to people, nothing really noteworthy -


Votes for Agan, saying she's probably Bill or Frodo. I, unlike others, don't find this especially suspicious.


Conclusion for Day1: slightly suspicious, but not extremely so.


I'll have to finish this later – I'm holding a hungry baby.

[Meneltarmacil]

Fea seems to hover between being helpful and being mysterious in my book. Day 1 was a strange one for her, as she said she'd look at Sally but then switched to Brinn, whom she strongly suspected but gave no reason for suspecting.

Her role in starting the Durelin bandwagon is also suspicious. That one came out of nowhere, and led to an innocent dying. I'd be wary of Fea, myself.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

I never understood it and still don't: why is it suspicious to make statements of the kind "if I was a wolf"?

Also, I might slip once as a wolf, but not three or four times. Seriously. And if I did, I'd be acting much more nervous by now.

It isn't - I was merely amused by the fact that following the logic of your post the one behind Noggie's death would actually be you. Nevertheless it was not a serious point against you and I hope you didn't take it as such. (Though I admit to some reaction-fishing... Result: I'm none the wiser.)

Originally Posted by Leggy

LG. Post 247: Is it so that there is nobody you actually suspect? Except for Sally, most people are either not alarming, or she has no idea about them.

In a nutshell, yes. (And actually, that "except for Sally" is a bit useless since I have no idea about her either... ) I'm inclined to vote either Lari or Fea toDay. I can't make out how Fea's behaviour would benefit an innocent villager, and as for Lari, apart from her first reply to my suspicion of her she gives me the vibe of a nervous somewhat-new wolf. Dunno.

I'll vote in a minute, I'm afraid - got to go to sleep and let Lommy post and study and all that...


EDIT: x-ed with Mira and Rikae

[Lariren Shadow]

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

All I meant to say (maybe I said it wrong) is that if Fea is a wraith, she probably expects that the seer knows and considers herself done for anyway.

But then, you know how she plays as a baddie - you were a wolf with her just one game ago. If you were a wolf this time, you would know better than to defend her... hmm...?

[Lariren Shadow]

Mac: Why would I be happy to lynch Fea today? Same reason you would be, to not die. There is a high probability it will come down to her and me today and, well, I'd vote her to save myself.

As for my suspcions: you(Mac) are high up on my list. Actually, it's you and Rune. It's not an attack, but you're posts don't read right to me.

As for Rune, well I know my vote was not meant to be part of a bandwagon. At least not intentionally. Rune's, on the other hand, was part of it. I just don't like it.

And Rikae, I hope you're taking a very good look at my posts.

[A Little Green]

I'll vote

++ Fea

because, like I just said, I see no way how what she has done would benefit an innocent villager in any way. First the Dury thing, and then toDay pretty much all the discussion has been revolving around her. If she's innocent, she's acting very weirdly - she hasn't indicated to even trying to turn the discussion elsewhere even though, if innocent, she would know the village is wasting its energy on talking about someone who doesn't need to be talked about. Stinks of cobblery to me.


EDIT: x-ed with Lari

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

IN THE PRESENT TIMES!!!

Fast, so that I don't x-post with too many. I may look more closely at the last few ones once more as soon as I post this, I just more or less skimmed through them.


Reading through the beginning of toDay: I am glad people think the same as I do...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh, crap it all. I know. I bet the wolves were thinking something like: "Why is Nogrod making such an issue about Dury's ranger impersonation? Maybe because... he's the real ranger!" I think that'd make a lot of sense. More sense than any other explanation I'm coming up with at the moment. (His posts are not seerish, he would not actually make a good no-trace kill etc.)

That's what I thought and still think.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, well, well.

YesterDay at deadline, I thought only one of two things could be happening: either I'd found myself (again) in a village consisting mostly of cobblers, or a lot of people were once again IM'ing while werewolfing, doubtless with alcohol involved. On second thought, though, I suppose it's just a matter of one wine-drinking, sleep deprived Noggins, one Mac who didn't wish to die, one cobbler ready to get herself lynched, and a couple of newbies without enough experience to recognize the insanity of it all (except Berry).

And that's also more or less what I thought.

Once again: Fea is a Cobbler. Mac is likely a Wolf. Do not listen to anything Fea says. That would be the best for us all, I am sure.

Beregond voting Mac makes a good impression on me, likewise his first post toDay.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I agree Fea seems very unlikely to have the village's best interests at heart. How can you be sure she's the cobbler rather than a wraith, though? I'd guess it took more than one baddie to make that lynch happen.

Of course. It took one Macwraith and one Cobbler-Fea.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Taking part in a joke discussion several hours later and without even having anything witty to say? If these carrot-potato things are supposed to be taken as hints, I'd be eyeing Rune very carefully...

I hardly think it had anything to do with hints. He simply commented on that because he liked that when he saw that. And, who knows how many bottles of window cleaning liquid had he had prior to that...

Some Mira and Lari could have been voting to "save Fea" because of RL friendship, however silly that is, I think. (That does not mean they are innocent, though.) The two of them have been slipping under my radar a lot (of course. They post far from often or long, and I have never played with them before), but I actually think a Wraith might be hiding there. I need to look at their votes for Dury yesterDay once more.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If Durelin had turned out to be a wolf... er, wraith, I'd have called that the worst slip ever. As it is, I don't know what she meant.

It's obvious what she meant. She was a Cobbler, not sure who is the Wraith and who not. Maybe she thought she's lynching a Wolf, maybe not. In any case, this is a clear signal.

I like Nerwen's analysis of the voting process, I have to agree with it. (I just hope Nerwen is not a clever wolf who had prepared grounds for that... but I am pretty certain there is at least one Wolf among these Dury-voters, or maybe likely two - Mac and somebody else, either Lari or Mira, most probably.)

I don't like Lari's posting: seeming fishy to me in some way.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Fea looks a bit like an evil mastermind. She puts the bandwaggon on its rails and does not hesitate about it one second, despite very questionable grounds.
Mirandir and Lari - synchronised werewolfing? They both make a list shortly before things get rolling, and neither suspects Durelin. They both defend Fea, they both change their minds on Durelin, they both make a very similar vote post. It is inconceivable that this was planned, so not both of them are wraiths. A wraith-cobbler combo is possible. Newbieness exonerates Mirandir a little, but Lari gets no such bonus anymore.
Rune's desire to save Fea is out of proportion. Mirandir and Lari are her RL friends, so it's more understandable. I thought that maybe Rune was the seer and dreamt of Fea, but no way would a seer risk himself when his innocent dream is not challenged seriously, which Fea wasn't. Also, if he wanted to save Fea, why go after Durelin? Even if he knew about Fea's innocence, he must've realised that the reasons against Durelin were ridiculous. I remember that he stated something about "experienced players should know better". He is more than experienced enough to know that you lynch the people who act suspicious, not the people who act weird. Stupid lynches like that happen way to often. I suspect that Rune and Fea are companions.
Rikae and especially Brinn take the role of the voice of reason. I believe they are innocent. They could be smart wraiths, but for now, I don't think so.

And what Mac says is just baaad. I mean, he not even mentions the chance of Fea being a Cobbler (that could cause people who suspect her thinking: she's a Wraith, and thus, lynch her - giving the Wraiths one more free day in exchange for this little sacrifice), instead he throws one more possible Cobbler in front of us (to confuse us, likely?), what more, he tries to pair her up with Rune, who looks innocent to me (cf. above). This way, he possibly hopes to widen the losses: they are BOTH baddies, let's get rid of her AND him after that, as well!

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder).

But we don't want to lynch her: We want to lynch a Wolf. And Fea is most likely a Cobbler. Of course, it's good to get rid of her, but even better is to just stop paying attention to her at all, and find and lynch the Wolves.

I see Mac has again been posting lists and candidates for why Nog was killed, good, nice, but again: offering questions and options does not really help, quite the opposite. It creates confusion in the village, people disperd, which is just what the Wolves need.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So what I was thinking was this: I have nothing much else to go on. Then I refreshed the page a lot. Right before Fea had poster her vote I had pretty much made up my mind to vote for Durelin. I had no other good suspects. Durelin was the best option at the time for me, I don't know why, maybe my mind at almost 1 AM is not the best thing. Ergo I decided to vote for her. Rune then jumped in while I was refreshing the mad posting so it looked like I was listening to him.

Think I’m suspicious all you want, but I also voted Durelin on Day 1 for the same reasons. I don’t know if that makes me stupid or what.

Lari's vote for Dury is something I like not, and her explanation is something I won't buy easily. She could have wholly made that up. However, the fact that she voted Dury both Days speaks in her favour: that would be quite some luck. Unless... maybe I will re-read the voting again once more.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Mac: Two options I see: Fea is innocent and set up by the wolves/wraiths to be lynched by us. Possiblity. Second option she is guilty, decided that to throw suspicion away from other wolves/wraiths she should sacrifice herself and be lynched.

And you don't mention the possibility of Fea being the Cobbler. Which is what I think she is.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

Okay, did anybody say they think that (like I say, I just skimmed through the last few posts, so I may have missed that), or if not, why are you saying that?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Says pointing out Frodo-ish behavior helps the wolves (also misleading).

What's misleading about that?

Originally Posted by Legate

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.
But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

But I was wondering if I should take Rikae seriously, or not. So I don't think being unsure there is suspicious. Or newbieish.

Originally Posted by Greenie

If she's innocent, she's acting very weirdly - she hasn't indicated to even trying to turn the discussion elsewhere even though, if innocent, she would know the village is wasting its energy on talking about someone who doesn't need to be talked about. Stinks of cobblery to me.

Oh, now that is a good point. Indeed. But I still think I'd rather vote a possible wolf than Fea who is only a probable Ferny. But I won't be terribly disappointed if you others lynch her, especially if she's Ferny and not just a general walking cloud of confusion.

*off to analyse sally*


edit: xed with Rune, Legate and Lari

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. I have just finished reading Day 2. Two basic things I conclude are written at the end of the post.

Now onto what I have read there in particular:

LG. Post 247: Is it so that there is nobody you actually suspect? Except for Sally, most people are either not alarming, or she has no idea about them.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

oh just a quick note about Frodo: Obviously people can play how they wish, but I always got the impression that Frodo was on our side. This should mean that he does not speculate in shifting sides and such, so Frodo should always act in a way that benifits his current team.

Just like Frodo did not consider letting the wraith stap him in weathertop so that he could becoe a wraith and join Sauron, however it was a risk. . .but not a choice.

Rune: Agreed and I could not say it better. (Even though I said that already before, and not just me, but some others as well.) That does not mean revealing rightaway, but some kind of trying to pass unnoticed by the Wraiths.

Rune seems innocent to me (and his post #254 seems good to me).

Aganzir seems more like innocent to me, and it may as well be that she really is, and not just pretends this time - like she often does. Where of course, one can never be certain... but I think she may be really innocent.

Mac makes some sense throughout the Day, but I believe if anyone, he is up to impersonating a sensible innocent while being a Wolf and wishing all the worst.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I see these options:

1. The wraiths were under unexpectedly much Day1-pressure and chose a safe kill. this is unlikely, though, since there are better ways to divert attention.
2. The wraiths were under absolutely no pressure and the village was entirely wrong about each candidate. The trail-less kill was chosen to prolong this state.
3. The wraiths are timid by nature and didn't dare to assault anybody who even might leave a track towards them. (In this case, they might even have thought that Shasta was the seer.)
4. The wraiths are sportsmen who thought it was a good idea to keep those alive that talked more and kill those who talked less.

-While Option 1 is possible, I'd like to discard it for now - mostly because that goes along with my suspicions from yesterday (it would more or less mean that both Lommy and Brinn are wraiths).
-Option 2 only means that Lommy and Brinn (and me, of course) are innocent. The wraiths could be anybody else.
-Option 3 leads us, I think, to Lari, Mirandir, and Beregond, for (relative) newbieness, and to Lommy, Brinn, and maybe Lily, for being of a more timid nature. It exonerates villagers who are both daring and dominant, such as Legate, Rikae, Nogrod, and Nerwen.
-Option 4 points to Legate and Nogrod (not saying that everybody else is not sportsmanlike, but those two are most likely to make a point of it).

Also, it is possible him offering these four options for why Shasta was killed was a way of him presenting some options to the innocents: "And now, choose, come all, come all! Do you want to believe X is a Wolf? Option #1 is just what you need! Or would you rather suspect Y? Come on, I am offering you this brand-new option #2! Go and lynch them!" etc.

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.

But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

And Menel actually said a good thing about this:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I'd suggest we keep any speculation regarding the Innkeeper/Seer to ourselves. Discussing Seerish comments openly just draws the wraiths towrd the true Seer, which isn't good. True, it may help to protect said person, but I personally think it wise to conceal the Seer's identity from xyr enemies as long as possible.

Which makes me think - was this an attempt from Fea to draw out the real Seer? Quite possible. Very possible.

And related, one more thing to Beregond:

Originally Posted by Beregond

But like you say it could be a red herring, or just in fun. Still, if that is true it's a strange statement as it doesn't help innocents much, does it?

I don't get this, is "red herring" any saying, or does it have anything to do with me? (You know, my role.) Like, if Berewolf could give hints to Fea Ferny, trying to communicate, like that I was the Seer, or something?

Mac's list in #326 is so "neutral" (in the sense: most people are "innocent" or "no idea about" or such), so that I can imagine it as a list of a Wolf trying to be on good terms with everyone, especially as it seems that he may be suspected by some.
(Which is, as I see, exactly what Rikae said in her post right after that.)

I have to ask, at this moment, why the heck was Mac not lynched yesterDay? At this point (where I am reading now), it looks so obvious! <= Okay, now I wrote this when I was still reading the thread, this is written when I am actually posting the post: I would not call that "so obvious" anymore, but still, he looks Wolfy enough.

And, okay, I haven't read toDay yet, but I can think of one reason (as I am reading through yesterDay) why Nog was killed: because the Wolves thought he is a Ranger. And why? Because they thought he is a Ranger and is annoyed by the fact that (according to him) Durelin was impersonating him. A normal person would not have taken Dury's "ranger impersonation" (in my opinion, and probably also in the Wolves' opinion, as I really don't get what Nog followed by that - that was really an obvious IC post) in any serious manner, but a Ranger could perhaps be more attentive and startled by that? However, it showed that Nog was not a Ranger after all. But I can imagine the scenario working like that.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Because it can be useful to have a good idea who is playing the Ranger role.

Which seems to be what Durelin's getting at.

What I can't figure out about this game is what's with the mysterious 'obvious' reveals so early on? Rikae playing seer, Durelin posting only in Ranger garb (and third person)... What is this about? Is it just a reignited desire for simple playfulness?

Or is there something secret going on with roles? Or like...

I just can't figure out why ordos would set themselves up to be lynched unless they're taking one for the team in effort to set up a bandwagon so the people later on can analyze what happened?

Like... it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm very tempted to vote Dury as I don't know what she's playing at. I feel like the Ranger wouldn't make a point of making herself wraith-bait.

Geez! And again! Okay, I don't mind when Mirandir asks about debating about the Ranger, he is a newbie. But Fea AGAIN joins in a speculation which started (by a newbie's remark) about a Gifted's role! Gifteds are not to be speculated about! They are too valuable for the village to reveal, for Eru's sake, not unless there is any good reason for them to do that! Fea is not a newbie, she should know that. SHE IS A COBBLER! There can be NO OTHER explanation.

****

My two most important conclusions of Day 2:

1. Fea is an OBVIOUS Cobbler. Informer. Bill Ferny. Whatever you call it.
2. Mac is likely a Wolf. Wraith. Whatever you call it.

These two information, unless they get relativised by what I read today, are two basic things I would like to propose in front of you to consider. I really can't see how anybody can think otherwise (about Fea at least), and how people might have voted Durelin, for mostly quite silly reasons (need to look at that once again, but in general, saving Fea makes little sense - even though of course it is better to lynch a Wraith than an Informer, though - but when she was about to go already... people were actually saving her, that's what was the worst on that).

Now onto toDay and I will be with you in the present.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

In that case, at least one other wraith must have been under pressure yesterDay, because otherwise nothing would speak against attempting to survive as a team. If there's nobody in need of sacrifice, then there's no need to sacrifice, after all.

I agree - there may well have been pressure on somebody evil. Another thing Fea's death would shed light on, I'd say.

Originally Posted by Mac

It technically doesn't, but Nogrod's presence would have kept a lot of suspicion from going into her direction.

Probably not. Maybe I'm biased, though, since I thought he was innocent (having been the target of misguided-ordo-Nog cases before myself contributes to that).

Originally Posted by Mac

Limited, yes, but making it one day longer is always desirable, so why needlessly shorten one's time?

Simply put, I find it a lot easier to believe that Fea thought she may as well play kamikaze-baddie than to believe she made that attack on Dury innocently. All it took was for someone to feel under pressure, see a chance of bringing down a gifted, perhaps, who knows.

Originally Posted by Mac

Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

I think Fea had reason to believe her vote stood a good chance of being followed, with three (I count Lari) newbies and a chivalrous Rune left to vote.

Originally Posted by Mac

And why would the wraiths lynch somebody they had such a use for? Better to try to get Nogrod lynched toDay and let Fea go down toMorrow.

I mentioned that it was odd myself. However, I don't think for a minute such a use would outweigh, for instance, the suspicion that Nog might be the ranger. A wolf-Fea never expects to make it far, and would tell her buddies to sacrifice her.

Originally Posted by Mac

Durelin had six votes. I think it's self-evident that one innocent was in there.

I should have said "experienced innocents". At any rate, pretty much everyone but Fea had an excuse.

To tell you the truth, though, I don't think they made the kill because it makes the bandwagon look better. I'm just saying it's possible, in general, to put that kind of spin on it when an innocent who was part of a suspicious bandwagon is killed.

I'm most inclined to believe the baddies thought they might be killing the ranger, and, on the balance, didn't worry about protecting Fea (or rather, left her with only her not inconsiderable arguing powers to defend her) as a likely seer-dream anyway.

Of course, all this only applies to a wraith-Fea. She's more cobblerish anyway, but I wouldn't say she's certainly no wraith.

[Rikae]

Legate, whew, thank goodness somebody sees through Fea. I thought I was going crazy here. I do still say a wolfish Fea can act cobblerish, though (which only makes her a more attractive lynch, of course).

Mac... well, I don't think he's Ferny, and I don't think he's an ordo. Ergo, I'll let him fight his own battles. I focus on him too much in these games.

By the way, "red herring" is a saying. It means a distracting, false hint, basically.

I was going to finish looking at Lommy, but I'm finding her more innocentish anyway.... perhaps my time would be better spent looking at Lari.

It also occurs to me that this whole crazy situation could very easily allow some wolves to put themselves in a positive light simply by being on the right side of this Fea-Dury nonsense. In fact, I suspect that's one of the main purposes of the whole fiasco.

Be back later.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think Fea had reason to believe her vote stood a good chance of being followed, with three (I count Lari) newbies and a chivalrous Rune left to vote.

The only downside to this argument is one that you'll just have to take on faith: I had no idea whose votes were still outstanding.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At any rate, pretty much everyone but Fea had an excuse.

And what was their excuse, Rikae, "Fea started it?"

Good excuse...

Originally Posted by Lily

First the Dury thing, and then toDay pretty much all the discussion has been revolving around her.

That is distinctly not my fault. I mean, the Dury thing was certainly encouraged by me, but I've barely been around today, so no blame of the actions of others should fall on me.

Originally Posted by Legate

Once again: Fea is a Cobbler.

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.

Originally Posted by Legate

Some Mira and Lari could have been voting to "save Fea" because of RL friendship, however silly that is, I think.

About this- while I totally believe that both of them would be willing to manipulate others by citing our RL friendship, I do not believe that they would have any hesitation at all to kill me, same way I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if I thought it was a good idea to do so.

Originally Posted by Mac

My point is that it was so foolish to seriously suspect Durelin to the point of voting at that point, that I can't believe that you, Fea, Lari, and Rune all did it out of honest intentions.

My intentions were honest.

I couldn't wrap my mind around the perversity of continuing to post in character at as critical of a moment as the time right before deadline.

I wanted to vote Rikae for the strange 'seer' actions of earlier, but didn't think I could get any support.

Therefore, Durelin as my last minute impulse vote. I figured, "Why not? The village will have less in character posting without her."

Today my suspicions lie most with those who are pushing hard for my lynching, namely Legate and Rikae.

I'm willing vote for for either, but leaning toward voting for Rikae, because she has a past (the seer thing) on my suspect list, versus Legate seems just to be following her lead.

Which may or may not be worse.

I'll be voting - unless something major changes very soon - for one of them tonight.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.

Oh but I am convinced. Okay, you may be also a Wraith, if what's been said about you being able to play like that is true.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.

Certainly. I can give you my word that for myself, I will be really interested in looking closer at those who suggested lynching you if you turn out to be an ordo. And maybe even without you turning out to be an ordo, it may be worth it just for checking. But whatever.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, Fea, just one thing: even back then on Day 1, you acted like a Cobbler and there were people suspecting you. So do not try to play on us how sudden and unfortunate is this suspicion of you.

All right. I am going now.

Voting list toDay:

Rikae => Fea (Fea 1)
LG => Fea (Fea 2)
Lommy => sally (Fea 2, sally 1)
Agan => Fea (Fea 3, sally 1)

So one may as well add my vote to the list:

++Fea

As it seems the general meaning goes in her direction, now it'll probably be pretty easy for the Wolves to hide themselves in, but whatever, I guess it's worth it anyway. And please, do not attempt to vote somebody else again just for the sake of preventing a bandwaggon against her. We know how it ended yesterDay.

And one note about Mac. He is suspicious also by his... politeness, yea, that's the word. He is being so nice to everybody... not reacting on suspicions of himself unless it is really needed (if somebody asked him), or if he can use it to show how those who chase him are perhaps slightly wrong in their minds, poor them, but he knows they mean well, they are just mislead, poor ones, he will be so kind and point out their mistakes and hope them to reconsider. Oh Mac, there will be peace... when you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows.
So, okay, if we are lynching Fea today - let's see what can be done with him toMorrow.

Good night, village.

EDIT: x-ed with Beregond. Hello, Beregond. Hope you don't mind me posting. But you can surely bear one more post Good night to you all once again.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Fea:
First she echoes Noggie's bizarre reasoning. Now she's trying to pass her vote off as a revenge/joke vote, but she was obviously trying to give some people (read: newbies) the impression that Nog's theory had merit here (just after saying that it's useful to discuss the ranger's identity!):

This does not quite make sense. . .You make it sound like only newbies could be convinced of the theorys merit, yet the theory was presented by one of the most expirienced ww players of all!
So if this theory was one only newbies could think had merit why was it Nogrod an inocent that presented it.

That is the general fault in your crusade against Durelin voters, you make it seem like it was the worst idea ever to come up in ww. . .yet it was an innocent Nogrod who started it.

You really confuse me Rikae, earlier today I was sure you where innocent, but slowly I get doubts.

Anyways as things look now, I will probably vote Mac.

EDIT: Cross posted with Beregond and Legate (who made a silly vote)

[Beregond]

As I'm reading: can someone, please, explain what a cobbler is (besides a shoemaker)? I searched the forums: no luck (used too many times without explanation), and I've searched Google without luck as well. I should have asked earlier when I first heard the term, but then I assumed it was a synonym for Bill Ferney's role.

Hi, Legate! I'm almost glad you've gone to bed, your posts are so long (but good, of course).

[Meneltarmacil]

YIKES! I totally forgot about the game going on until now!

OK, my suspicions and probable innocents:

Not suspicious:
Aganzir and Brinn from what I said before.
Legate, who seems to be pretty helpful and level-headed and whose reasoning I can agree with.

Suspicious:
Mac and Fea, the former for his confusing Ferny statement and role in Gollum's Day 1 lynch and the latter for reasons that are obvious to everyone.
Rikae, to a much lesser extent due to the Seer comments.

I really can't decide between Mac and Fea right now, but I will vote for someone within the next 30 minutes. Do your best to sway me until then. I'll be over at the Pony getting drunk.

[Rikae]

Rune: Well, to be blunt, I've seen Nogrod come up with some pretty far-fetched, paranoid conspiracy theories before. It's almost a trademark of his. I've been at the receiving end of them more than once (and yes, as an innocent).

Nogrod has a well-deserved reputation as a legendary player, but he does have this particular weakness.

Anyway, I don't base my assessment of a theory on the reputation of the player who comes up with it.

Berry: A cobbler is a player who is an ordo in all respects, except that xe wants the baddies to win. Ferny is a cobbler with the added ability to send suggestions to the wraiths.

[Beregond]

Thank you, Rikae.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Rune: Well, to be blunt, I've seen Nogrod come up with some pretty far-fetched, paranoid conspiracy theories before. It's almost a trademark of his. I've been at the receiving end of them more than once (and yes, as an innocent).

Nogrod has a well-deserved reputation as a legendary player, but he does have this particular weakness.

Anyway, I don't base my assessment of a theory on the reputation of the player who comes up with it.

Yes, experienced players can come up with far-fetched cospiracys (and often do), so why do you think that Fea's vote for Durelin was an attempt to get a following of newbies?

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

Did we miss the part where I cross-posted with Nog, Lari, Fea, Nog again, and Rune? I had no idea what was going on with regards to any possible bandwagon jumping that has been speculated about. Furthermore, I definitely didn't vote Durelin because of Fea's joking revenge vote for Dury. Yes, we are friends in real life. Yes, I am a newbie. However, neither of those mean that I won't throw her under the bus if need be. Same with Lari.

I realize that sounds a little harsh. I apologize. I'm not in the best of moods at the moment and don't have much time for WW today. I will be back at least a few hours before deadline with something actually worth contributing (*fingers crossed*).