Words and Names in Tolkien's Work

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As for Galadhon, I think the -on element is probably just a male suffix, so the name would translate roughly as 'Tree Guy'.

If Elmo comes up next, there's St Elmo's fire (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire). As this tends to be rather on the bluish than the reddish part of the spectrum, it would fit the el- element (meaning 'star'; -thil in Galathil also means light of a white or silver, rather than golden, colour).

That’s probably true, but given that everybody seems to have their pet conspiracy theory about something from Tolkien’s books, I figure that I deserve one too. And if the worst I can come up is that the descendants of Elwe’s youngest brother Elmo tend to be Elvish Casanovas, well.... I’m not harming anybody (Unless this is really all true, and Galadriel comes after me with a sword or something...)

I’m afraid Elmo’s going to have to wait while I do more research into St. Elmo’s fire which I had never heard of before. I will discuss Nimloth though.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

There are two divergent stories Tolkien wrote regarding Celeborn. One regarded, of course, his Sindarin roots and relation to Thingol, but the second one was that his name was Teleporno, a Telerin Elf of Valinor who meets Galadriel in the Telerin city of Alqualonde, and then the two decide to set off for Middle-earth. Although not part of the Kin-slaying, they are caught up in the Ban because they have not sought permission to leave Valinor. The Thingol relation story became part of the Silmarillion because Christopher Tolkien decided against a major rewrite regarding Galadriel's past, but it seems the Telerin version Teleporno was actually JRR Tolkien's last word on the character.

Thank you for bringing this up. I never intended to give off the impression that this is the only story Tolkien laid out for Celeborn. I simply can’t accept it, for myself, not because I believe the Silmarilion is always right, but because I can’t make it fit with LotR without doing somersaults and a jig with my logic. Every indication we are given in LotR as to Celeborn’s heritage makes him out to be a Silvan or Sindar and plus if he was born in Valinor than he would by the genealogies given there be Galadriel’s first cousin. And that’s just icky to the elves. As stated in one of the HOME books I don’t have, and therefore am just going off my notes about the HOME books for. Of course, if Tolkien had lived he might very well have rewritten LotR to fit with this new backstory for Galadriel, though I don’t think it’s half as interesting as the one we have.

Plus if we keep moving Elwe’s relatives to Valinor, pretty soon it’s just going to be him in the woods all by himself.

And we might have had Teleporno as his name in the books and my mommy wouldn’t have let me read them.

Now for Nimloth! Fascinating woman, married to Dior ‘the most beautiful of all Eru’s children’ gave birth to Eludred, Elurin, and Elwing, and Celeborn’s niece if we accept that Galathil is his brother.

Nim comes from nimp meaning either pale, white or small and frail. Loth means flower, inflorescence, and a head of small flowers. Inflorescence means the complete flower head of a plant, including stems, stalks, bracts, and flowers or the process of flowering. It’s most recognizable use is of course Lothlorien the realm of Celeborn and Galadriel.

Therefor here are the possible meanings of Nimloth:

Pale flower
White flower
Small and frail flower
Pale flowering
Small and frail flowering

From this the image I get of Nimloth is a small, frail, pale woman with silver hair. However it is debatable to me whether her frailty would have been internal or external. I have to say that being married to Dior it seems like she must have had some internal strength or he wouldn’t have noticed her. Why would she have been small though, considering that so many of her relatives are well relatively tall? If, and this is completely baseless speculation on my part, she had been born while everybody is searching the woods for Elwe then it may have been that they experienced severe hardships finding food and such, or if she was born after the Girdle fell, than it may be the same.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

There are two divergent stories Tolkien wrote regarding Celeborn.

More than two, regarding Celeborn's clan anyway; but Tolkien decided to publish that Celeborn was Sindarin in any case: once in The Return of the King, and again (in the next decade) in The Road Goes Ever On.

One regarded, of course, his Sindarin roots and relation to Thingol, but the second one was that his name was Teleporno, a Telerin Elf of Valinor who meets Galadriel in the Telerin city of Alqualonde, and then the two decide to set off for Middle-earth. Although not part of the Kin-slaying, they are caught up in the Ban because they have not sought permission to leave Valinor.

They had no part in the Rebellion in this late adumbrated version (Tolkien arguably forgot he had already published that Galadriel was a rebel Noldo, and so much so that she was banned at the end of the First Age), however Galadriel was given a 'part' in the Kinslaying in some measure, despite that the fight is against Feanor. Galadriel seemingly had no part in the 1950s when she was first introduced into the texts concerning the Elder Days.

Nimloth 'White Blossom' (S. index).

[LadyBrooke]

Thanks, Galin, for the clarification of what Nimloth’s name means. Hmmm...I think my ponderings on why she would be named this can still stand, for when I think of a white blossom I do imagine a rather frail looking flower, that would still manage to survive by itself, as I have raised several types of flowers like that.

Originally Posted by Galin

More than two, regarding Celeborn's clan anyway; but Tolkien decided to publish that Celeborn was Sindarin in any case: once in The Return of the King, and again (in the next decade) in The Road Goes Ever On.

I must admit, one of the other reasons I prefer Celeborn to be a Sindar, and not one of the Teleri of Aman is that there is the added tragic element. If he is one of the Teleri, they meet before the kinslaying and are friends. However if he is one of the Sindar, they meet while she is a exile. Also, the Noldor seem to look down on the Sindar, as Morquendi, ignoring the fact that as kinslayers they are probably darker than the Avari, who have never slain their own kin.

I am still doing research for Elmo. Did you guys know there was a Catholic saint who was known as Elmo?

[Galin]

By the way, my apologies to Morthoron. While I stand by my earlier niggles, in reading the thread more closely it seems Morthoron's response was specifically to explain that the name Teleporno went with the concept of Celeborn being from Aman, as the context was in response to:

The thing I am more curious about is the fact that this name clearly invokes Teleperion, one of the two trees. However, this name would be largely incompatible with Tolkien’s history of Celeborn as set in LotR where Celeborn is clearly not from Valinor, if we assume that it is his original name. Therefore Celeborn must be an epesse, given to him by somebody who had seen the two trees - either Melian, Elwe, or one of the returning Noldor.

In other words, if one is going to take Teleporno and construct a theory on it that includes the history of the character, then the corresponding character is that of a Teler from Aman. One goes with the other.

That said, Tolkien imagined a character who had various names to begin with (Tar, Aran, Galdaran, Galathir, Arafain). He settled on Celeborn of course, and JRRT also seems to have had various ideas concerning him, inculding a possible Noldorin history (for this idea see Galadriel note 12, The Treason of Isengard). Celeborn 'Silver tree' keeps his name through subsequent conceptions. This form itself is the same as the name of the Tree of Tol Eressea, and in Appendix E to The History of Galadriel and Celeborn CJRT notes that the meaning was later abandoned for 'Silver tall'. This change is external, though no doubt the form could still be 'wrongly' interpreted 'Silver Tree' by characters within the mythology. Tolkien's note in UT (Appenix E again, as above) appears to want to incorporate this nice confusion, in that both rulers of Lórien appeared to have names that contained a tree word, according to some at least (see the full note).

Basically I think that Teleporno arose from the new history: if Celeborn was to become Telerin he would have a name in Telerin form. Whatever else Tolkien thought about this new name I don't know. Anyway it was a relatively late change and I'm not sure JRRT had remembered what he had already published about Celeborn. This whole concept might go the path of Beorian ros, a rejected later idea, and rejected after JRRT realized he had already published something.