When the Nazgûl lose their bodily form, what happens to their rings?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I don't think the quotes from UT and FotR are irreconcilable. The Nazgûl keeping the Nine is what the Wise of the West may have supposed to be true (wasn't it Gandalf who said that?), whereas Sauron holding them seems to be an auctorial statement by Tolkien himself, who knew a little bit more of the matter than his characters.

Yes, Gandalf or Elrond. The problem is, that the very same Gandalf says at another point something different which seems to imply that Sauron has the Rings, and not the Nine. Well, what could he know anyway - Sauron may have redistributed the Rings in any way he wished - but still, it's an interesting controversy. I like it, because it opens more room for speculation.

Apart from that, Sauron himself had no problem wearing the One in spirit form when his body perished in the Downfall of Númenór - maybe he taught the Nazgûl the trick.

Well, but I guess there is a difference between one (really powerful) Maia and a Ringwraith. And especially when water is involved...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

The essential problem of course was that after the end of the Second Age Sauron *could not* have controlled the Nine, had they possessed their own rings. They would have been free agents, bound to none but themselves. So I think we have to assume that once they were fully "wraithed," some time in the Second Age, Sauron used the power of the Ruling Ring to force the Nazgul to give their Rings back.

[Boromir88]

It probably would have helped if I was more specific with the quotes, but do to my lack of a LOTR book at the moment, I found those from another thread here...

If I recall correctly, the 1st LOTR one Gandalf tells Frodo in The Shadow of the Past.

The 2nd one is Galadriel in The Mirror of Galadriel.

But don't hold me to that.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

I'm thinking that maybe if Sauron had the nine rings then he would have an easier time controlling the Wraiths because they would always want to have their rings. What I mean is, the Wraiths would always want to come back to their rings in hopes that Sauron, being the nice, generous guy that he is, would give them back. Maybe the wraiths actually trusted Sauron. Maybe Sauron lied to them, a second time, and they were decieved into giving them up, he told them he would give them their rings back.

As to how the Nazgul would find each other, they had pagers.

[Pitchwife]

Actually, the idea that Sauron held the Nine Rings seems to have been the original one, going back to the early drafts.
From The Return of the Shadow (HoME VI), Of Gollum and the Ring:

[...] the men-wraiths are servants of the Lord, and they brought all their rings back to him; till at last he gathered all into his hands again that had not been destroyed by fire[...]

And from RS, Ancient History:

But all the Nine Rings of Men have gone back to Sauron, and borne with them their possessors, kings, warriors, and wizards of old, who became Ringwraiths and served the maker, and were his most terrible servants.

Curiously, Gandalf is the speaker in both cases; so what possessed him to state "The Nine the Nazgûl keep" at the Council of Elrond? Maybe just a temporary lapse of memory by Tolkien, the original idea resurfacing later in UT and Letters?

Boro:

As it was their 9 rings that that Nazgul were enthralled to, not the One.

Saruman, expert in ring-lore, thought otherwise (UT, The Hunt for the Ring):

I know what you seek, though you do not name it. I have it not, as surely its servants perceive without telling; for if I had it, then you would bow before me and call me Lord.[my emphasis, Pw.]

He may have been mistaken, of course.

TGEW:

What I mean is, the Wraiths would always want to come back to their rings in hopes that Sauron, being the nice, generous guy that he is, would give them back.

I quite like this thought. Maybe in this respect the Nazgûl weren't that much different from Gollum - addicted to their rings, and driven mad by more than an age of withdrawal?
"Please masster... give preciouss back to good Khamûl!"

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

TGEW:

I quite like this thought. Maybe in this respect the Nazgûl weren't that much different from Gollum - addicted to their rings, and driven mad by more than an age of withdrawal?
"Please masster... give preciouss back to good Khamûl!"

Ha-ha. The Ring-wraiths might actually want to come back to Sauron for more than that reason though, maybe they wanted to come back to Sauron because he gave them perks that no one else in the service of the Dark Lord got. Plus, if Sauron wasn't around then the Nazgul would just fade away and maybe actually die.

Oh yes, thank you for the compliment!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior

if Sauron wasn't around then the Nazgul would just fade away and maybe actually die.

I doubt if they could, and they certainly didn't when Sauron was disembodied for a millennium or so between his defeat by the Last Alliance and reappearance as the Necromancer of Dol Guldur.