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[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Think in terms of Dark Ages Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire. Markets became more and more localized as the globalized economy of the Empire shrank. The great arteries of Roman roads fell into disuse. In England during most of the early Middle Ages, the populous never left their villages throughout their entire lives, and only a few made the dangerous trek through the primeval forests to reach the next village in a clearing further through the woods.

This, I think, is what Tolkien was getting at in the Shire, where folks that lived only 10 or 20 miles away were thought of as queer -- some even wore boots! "Strange as news from Bree" not only regards the information provided, but is a comment on the insular aspect of the society.

All true, however I never got the impression of Dark Ages when I was reading LotR. Gondor was in decline but still had great nobles, and had ships, didn't it?

I guess I pictured men like Prince Imrahil as the kind who would strike out and do things, like sail up the coast to the Havens (and down the coast to burn a few ships in dock in Umbar), rather than sit around indolently on Dol Amroth.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

All true, however I never got the impression of Dark Ages when I was reading LotR. Gondor was in decline but still had great nobles, and had ships, didn't it?

I guess I pictured men like Prince Imrahil as the kind who would strike out and do things, like sail up the coast to the Havens (and down the coast to burn a few ships in dock in Umbar), rather than sit around indolently on Dol Amroth.

The Byzantine Empire, which was the Eastern half of the Roman Empire, was still a force to be reckoned with, but because of religious differences with the West, there was little concourse between Constantinople and Europe. But the Byzantines experienced a continous erosion of its power over the centuries as it became more and more decadent, finally falling to the Turks in 1453. But by then, Byzantium was a mere shadow of its former glory, with little but the city of Constantinople itself as part of its dwindled empire. This is much like Gondor, with its once vast landholdings dwindled away to Minas Tirith and the vassal holdings westward, like Dol Amroth. Rohan was never really a vassal state, but an ally given land Gondor could no longer control, Osgiliath was destroyed, and all of Ithilien and Near Harad were under enemy control.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The Byzantine Empire, which was the Eastern half of the Roman Empire, was still a force to be reckoned with, but because of religious differences with the West, there was little concourse between Constantinople and Europe. But the Byzantines experienced a continous erosion of its power over the centuries as it became more and more decadent, finally falling to the Turks in 1453. But by then, Byzantium was a mere shadow of its former glory, with little but the city of Constantinople itself as part of its dwindled empire. This is much like Gondor, with its once vast landholdings dwindled away to Minas Tirith and the vassal holdings westward, like Dol Amroth. Rohan was never really a vassal state, but an ally given land Gondor could no longer control, Osgiliath was destroyed, and all of Ithilien and Near Harad were under enemy control.

A very good analogy which I had failed to consider. I should have thought of that instead of being fixed on the insularity of the Tokugawa Shogunate.