How did Saruman know who Gimli was ?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

More importantly, putting 2 and 2 together, Balin's occupation of Moria might have made him sit up and take notice. Saruman was the expert on Rings of Power, I bet he had figured out that there was still one of the seven unaccounted for, though I'm not sure if Gandalf let on that it was taken in Dol Guldur? If not, then Saruman would have loved to get his hands on it and Moria wasn't too far for his spies to travel, or to do a bit of Palantir-ing.

Saruman had to have been well aware Sauron had recovered or accounted for all the Seven.
Gandalf had gone into Dol Guldur in T.A. 2850, and had then found Thráin II there, raving about 'the last of the Seven'. The White Council had met the very next year to discuss what to do about the Necromancer (revealed to be Sauron by Gandalf), and Gandalf would surely have told all about his experiences in Dol Guldur, including the fate of Thráin's ring.

[Sarumian]

I totally agree that every detail of the Erebor quest should be of a great interest for Saruman. Smaug's ellimination and the Battle of Five Armies were very important events; he cuould also have felt there was something dodgy in that, though the Ring was kept a secret. So Saruman must have been be aware of Gloin's name.

I don't think he knew anything about Gimli before the Fellowship departed from Rivendail. However he could have learnt it either from his spies in Hollin (there could be not only animals, but Dunlendings), or from Wormtongue, or himself in Farngorn, as have already been said here, so there was no mistake.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Sarumian

I don't think he knew anything about Gimli before the Fellowship departed from Rivendail. However he could have learnt it either from his spies in Hollin (there could be not only animals, but Dunlendings), or from Wormtongue, or himself in Farngorn, as have already been said here, so there was no mistake.

I doubt Dunlendings, or any other two-legged spies, could have been close enough to the Company in Eregion to have overheard their speech.
For one thing, the lands surrounding Rivendell had been well searched prior to the departure of the Fellowship. Also, it seems likely anyone trying to follow them would have been marked by Legolas, Aragorn, or Gandalf at least, not to mention the Hobbits, who were sharp enough to see and hear Gollum later on when he was on their trail.

And by the way, welcome Sarumian!

[Mugwump]

Considering the age of the Istari, and how much they got around, I would have been astounded at any suggestion that Saruman did NOT know a notable dwarf like Gimli by sight. I'm certain he must've seen him before in his travels, and more than once.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

Considering the age of the Istari, and how much they got around, I would have been astounded at any suggestion that Saruman did NOT know a notable dwarf like Gimli by sight. I'm certain he must've seen him before in his travels, and more than once.

That seems highly unlikely to me. Saruman, based on my impression from the Istari bits of Unfinished Tales and the Tale of the Years, was pretty sedentary after the Steward of Gondor gave him the keys of Orthanc. Not completely, I don't imagine, but I really don't think he was much of a wanderer by the time of the last White Council, and Gimli was too young then to go on the Quest to Erebor, so I don't think we can call him "notable" quite yet.

[Mugwump]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Gimli was too young then to go on the Quest to Erebor, so I don't think we can call him "notable" quite yet.

Because of who Gimli's father was, I would still be greatly surprised if Saruman didn't already know him by sight. Conversely, Saruman's calling him by name at that time could easily have been to show off his knowledge. I'm sure he used the Palantir and his other spies to scope out as much information about Gandalf and his companions as possible.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

Because of who Gimli's father was, I would still be greatly surprised if Saruman didn't already know him by sight. Conversely, Saruman's calling him by name at that time could easily have been to show off his knowledge. I'm sure he used the Palantir and his other spies to scope out as much information about Gandalf and his companions as possible.

Yes, but here we go - only after Gimli became the part of the Fellowship. Glóin was really not important AT ALL for somebody like Saruman, cf. what I have posted earlier on this thread. Thorin was the only one of the original bunch (and later maybe Balin when he initiated the departure to Moria) who could have really been of any interest to Saruman. Saruman was also becoming already "powerblind" in this stage, this typical trait of bad guys in Middle-Earth (like Sauron ignoring the Hobbits), I think with his ideology he would just shrug off the Dwarves as unimportant, skilful but doomed to rot in their voluntarily chosen foolish stagnation underground. So indeed even Erebor and Dáin would mean for him only a strategic piece on the map blocking the Easterlings, and a number in his economic calculations if he was getting a trade from there.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

Because of who Gimli's father was, I would still be greatly surprised if Saruman didn't already know him by sight. Conversely, Saruman's calling him by name at that time could easily have been to show off his knowledge. I'm sure he used the Palantir and his other spies to scope out as much information about Gandalf and his companions as possible.

I'm not denying Gimli wasn't a Dwarf of some consequence. Assuming Thorin Stonehelm was an only child, and assuming there are no other missing figures in the branches depicted in Appendix A III, Gimli was 4th in line to the Durinic throne, after Thorin III, Dwalin, and his father, Glóin. On this basis, Gimli may well have been known to Saruman by name.

But I wonder if you are overvaluing somewhat slightly the efficacy of the Palantír. Here is a bit of what Tolkien said in his essay, "The Palantíri" in Unfinished Tales:

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

But controlled by the will of a skilled and strong surveyor, remoter things could be enlarged, brought as it were nearer and clearer, while their background was almost suppressed. Thus a man at a considerable distance might be seen as a tiny figure, half an inch high, difficult to pick out against a landscape or a concourse of other men; but concentration could enlarge and clarify the vision till he was seen in clear if reduced detail like a picture apparently a foot or more in height, and recognized if he was known to the surveyor. Great concentration might even enlarge some detail that interested the surveyor, so that it could be seen (for instance) if he had a ring on his hand.

But this 'concentration' was very tiring and might become exhausting. Consequently it was only undertaken when the information was urgently desired, and chance (aided by other information maybe) enabled the surveyor to pick out items (significant to him and his immediate concern) from the welter of the Stone's visions.

My point with this longish quote is that getting familiar with the likenesses of various Dwarf-lords would not have been a particularly easy task for Saruman, and I have doubts as to whether he would have wasted this much energy on Gimli--or even Glóin. Although powerful, the Gróinic line was but a cadet branch of the house of Durin--and, as I noted, Thorin III Stonehelm might not have been an only son--and Dwalin might not have been childless.

All this assumes, too, that the Orthanc-Stone would have reached Erebor, which is not a good assumption, in my books. Quoting again, Note 18 from the same essay:

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

Marginal jottings associated with this note are partly illegible, but so much can be made out, that the remotre the poast the clearer the view, while for distant viewing there was a 'proper distance', varying with the Stones, at which distant objects were clearer. The greater palantíri could look much further than the lesser; for the lesser the 'proper distance' was of the order of five hundred miles, as between the Orthanc-stone and that of Anor. "Ithil was too near, but was largely used for [illegible words], not for personal contacts with Minas Anor.

500 miles--Isengard to Minas Tirith. Very roughly making distance calculations with my fingers on the map in my paperback copy of Unfinished Tales, Erebor was another two-thirds as far again. Even assuming a certain amount of over-run in distance being possible for a strong mind, I think it's safe to say that Erebor was far out of casual viewing range for Isengard, and even Rivendell was pushing it.

Of course, if there is anywhere in Middle-earth that, in the late 3rd Age, was still shrouded from the sight of the Stones, I would think it would be the refuge of Elrond, which was still unknown to casual travellers, and ruled by one of the Wise, who had the lore of Arnor in his library (as well as the Elven lore of Eregion). So when could Saruman have started picking up Gimli in the Palantír? I am personally of the opinion that he wouldn't have been following the Fellowship until Anduin--maybe not even until Fangorn or Edoras.

This does not mean, with all the foregoing, that Saruman couldn't put two and two together. Undoubtedly, he must have had a few spies in Dale and Erebor, and when he noticed/heard that a Dwarf had travelled from Rivendell with the Fellowship, I expect he would have been able to recall that the near-royal Lords Glóin and Gimli of the House of Durin had left Erebor for Rivendell, and it wouldn't take much of a genius to deduce that, of the two, it would be Gimli who had accompanied the Fellowship.

So... I agree the Palantír played a role in this recognition, but I would downplay the extent to which Saruman was utilising it for the general recognition of not-quite-key lords in realms very far from his own.