Lúthien Tinúviel & the Istari

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

All the same... I can't help but getting a rather Radagastly feeling from her, as though going native in Middle-earth, marrying a local, and getting involved in a land-war with Morgoth was not exactly toeing the party line.

Depending on whose line you're talking about, the Valar's or Eru's - which aren't necessarily identical. I don't quite feel that the Valar's policy of retiring to Valinor, setting up an Unblemished Disneyland (forgive the sarcasm) and summoning the Elves to live there happily ever after while abandoning Middle-earth to Morgoth to do there as he pleased had the One's unrestricted approval - it certainly didn't have Tolkien's, who repeatedly chided the Gods for their fainéance during most of the First Age.
Melian, on the other hand, not only was a teacher of wisdom to the Elves of Middle-earth (like the Valar were to those who had gone west), but also helped to protect them and provide a safe refuge against the forces of Morgoth. Maybe in her willingness to get involved she even was truer to Eru's will than the Lords of the West in their splendid isolation? I see nothing Radagastly at all there through my pair of spectacles, rather the contrary.
Marrying and producing offspring with one of His Children is another matter, of course - no idea what Eru thought of that. But consider: without Lúthien and her marriage to Beren, no Eärendil, no messenger who pleaded the case of the Children before the Valar and moved them to take some long delayed action, no War of Wrath and defeat of Morgoth (unless you take the early version where Earendel came too late and the Host of the West had already set forth). Maybe Melian's doings, together with Ulmo's (sending Tuor to Gondolin, etc.pp), were actually part of Eru trying to get the message across to the Valar that Morgoth's dominion of Middle-earth had gone on long enough?

[Mugwump]

I never understood how Melian, a Maia, was able to "take the form" of one of the children of Ilúvatar, to be able to procreate a child of Ilúvatar from her womb. I don't see how she was able to do that at all, effectively transforming herself into one of the children of Ilúvatar. Wasn't this power, to create life like that, reserved to Ilúvatar Himself? As I recall, one of the Valar, Aulë, created the Dwarves, and Ilúvatar wasn't too pleased, was he!

I've always been unclear about the Ainur (who comprise both the Valar and the Maia), who were supposedly created directly from the mind of Eru (Ilúvatar), and how they were able to mate with Elves and Men. If they could do that, could they mate with themselves as well, and produce offspring? And were they all (including Gandalf) created before Eä, so that they all heard the Ainulindalë (and did they remember it?) or were some created afterward? Did Gandalf have some kind of a childhood?

In fact, the doubts I have about this sometimes make me suspect that some of the elements of these stories may be fictional.

[Andsigil]

I wouldn't call the Istari "powered down" Maia. Gandalf did single-handedly defeat a Balrog, after all.

For some cross-cultural comparisons, Gandalf and the Balrog remind me of a pair of large guardian statues which flank the entrances of Buddhist Temples in Japan, most notably the Todai-Ji, located in Nara. Known as the "Nio" ("benevolent kings"), they represent two sides of the attribute of strength.

Agyo (阿形) is a symbol of overt strength and violence, is armed, and is depicted with an open mouth:


I see Balrogs, Melian, or other Maia who manifest their strength overtly as akin to an Agyo

(more in the post below, as I can't fit 4 images in one post)

[Andsigil]

(continued from above)

Ungyo (吽形) is usually bare-handed. He symbolizes latent strength, holding his mouth tightly shut:


I see Gandalf, or other Maia who manifest their strength latently and reservedly, as akin to an Ungyo.

[Mugwump]

Thanks for the cross-cultural education. In the same vein, I see the Balrog as akin to Godzilla.