WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

"Glass houses," Boro. Ever hear of them? I absolutely defy you to try and dismiss what I'm saying as being "rude and offensive" when you're one of the ones who pushed through Lottie's lynch yesterday when you knew she wouldn't be around to defend herself.

Seriously messed up in the head? And then the CAPS lock? You don't consider that a rude tone? Sorry, but I do.

Shasta, someone's gotta go every day. I'm sure Lottie might think it sucks, I don't know, but she should understand this is how it works. Is that cold? A little...I'll send Lottie a message or something to make-up for it. Offensive? No, it's a game we have to decide who leaves it. When we're wrong we wipe our hands and move on. It does no good to berate people for being wrong. So, like I said get off your high horse like you're some righteous innocent protector.

Originally Posted by Shasta
Stop putting words in my mouth. The most foolish thing we could do at this point is to [i

not[/i] use our double lynch today, considering that both Gifted are still around. You can try and dismiss what I say as "Oh Shasta's just mad" all you like - it won't work.

What words are you talking about? I said yesterday if people thought I was too big of a question mark, I would have been perfectly fine with being lynched. If it comforts you, you can sacrifice me today, if this is the way you're going to be I don't care at this point. But there is no way in hell we are killing 2 people today because you're emotions are high.

[satansaloser2005]

Oi! Boro, Shasta, chill. Arguing will get us nowhere.


So Brinn's dead, and toDay we must lynch two (more or less). I have an idea, and it may not be popular but I think it'll work.


I think the hunter should come out toDay.


There. I'll just let that sink in a bit, then I'll explain.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oi! Boro, Shasta, chill. Arguing will get us nowhere.


So Brinn's dead, and toDay we must lynch two (more or less). I have an idea, and it may not be popular but I think it'll work.


I think the hunter should come out toDay.


There. I'll just let that sink in a bit, then I'll explain.

I think I see where you're going with this. The hunter has two shots at a wolf, since there are two alive. If we sacrifice the hunter and take those two shots, plus lynch someone not on the hunter's list, that's three shots at two wolves today.

Am I right?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The problem with that plan, though, is that if the Hunter doesn't have a wolf on their list, then we're down two innocents even before the lynch. Can we afford to lose three innocents today? We're at eight people and two wolves now... with a possible four innocent deaths, that's a wolf win.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

The problem with that plan, though, is that if the Hunter doesn't have a wolf on their list, then we're down two innocents even before the lynch. Can we afford to lose three innocents today? We're at eight people and two wolves now... with a possible four innocent deaths, that's a wolf win.

Yeah, but also keep in mind that we will lose an innocent but gain a known innocent (because if an innocent dies with the hunter we know they had no wolf on their list), which the ranger will then (hopefully) be able to protect, giving us not only a known ordo but a ranger as well. How we can assure the ranger's identity I know not, unless they've worked out some sort of code or something, but it's a risk I'd be willing to take if I thought it was a good chance of a wolf catch.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Yeah, but also keep in mind that we will lose an innocent but gain a known innocent (because if an innocent dies with the hunter we know they had no wolf on their list), which the ranger will then (hopefully) be able to protect, giving us not only a known ordo but a ranger as well. How we can assure the ranger's identity I know not, unless they've worked out some sort of code or something, but it's a risk I'd be willing to take if I thought it was a good chance of a wolf catch.

No, no, I mean, look what happens if we're wrong -

Hunter is sacrificed. Hunter has no wolf on their list - Hunter and innocent die.
Innocent is lynched.
Innocent is wolf-killed.
Score is 2-2. Wolves win.

Now, we'd have to be extremely wrong for that to happen, that's the worst case scenario. But it's a possibility.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

No, no, I mean, look what happens if we're wrong -

Hunter is sacrificed. Hunter has no wolf on their list - Hunter and innocent die.
Innocent is lynched.
Innocent is wolf-killed.
Score is 2-2. Wolves win.

Now, we'd have to be extremely wrong for that to happen, that's the worst case scenario. But it's a possibility.

Only if the ranger's a complete idiot. I'm just sayin'.

But yes, I see your point. If this goes wrong it's End Game, but if it goes right we could end this toDay as well. And as Nog pointed out, if our hunter has both of their picks wrong then the wolves are very clever and as much as I wouldn't like it they deserve to win.


Where's everyone else by the way?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, to play Devil's Advocate (Hi, I'm Nogrod, nice to meet you ), a Hunter that dies via wolf-kill is much more useful than a Hunter who dies via lynch. There's no chance of an innocent dying, there's the obvious waste of a wolf-kill, and in our situation taking a wolf with them is the absolute worst-case scenario for a Hunter who is nightkilled. Look -

Scenario A. Hunter is killed. First person on Hunter's list is a wolf - that wolf dies. We're down a wolf.

Scenario B. Hunter is killed. Second person on Hunter's list is a wolf - that wolf dies. We're down a wolf, AND up a cleared innocent (because the first person on the Hunter's list can't be a wolf, otherwise they'd have died first).

Scenario C. Hunter is killed. Hunter has no wolves on their list. Hunter dies, but we're up TWO cleared innocents in exchange.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I think I see where you're going with this. The hunter has two shots at a wolf, since there are two alive. If we sacrifice the hunter and take those two shots, plus lynch someone not on the hunter's list, that's three shots at two wolves today.

Am I right?

Yes and no. We could clear innocents and maybe kill a wolf at the same time.


Three scenarios:

Ordo reveals as hunter. We lynch them because they're silly (this is NOT the Day to go for that rash of a plan, not when this can be so perfectly orchestrated) and we get nothing.

Wolf reveals as hunter. We lynch them and we have a wolf.

Hunter reveals as hunter. They tell us their list and we lynch them accordingly, then we'll know either a wolf or an innocent (although keep in mind we could lose an ordo this way along with the hunter) and we'll be in a lot better shape (though granted down a hunter as well).

Of course we'll also learn a lot about people's leanings based on this plan and their adherence to it. We can't lose. Now we just need our hunter to come out. You know who you are, we do not. Do as you see fit; if there is no reveal toDay I say we agree as much as possible on our top two lynch candidates, lynch (rather sacrifice) one, then use that information to see what to do with the other.


Thoughts?

[Nogrod]

Hmm... I'm a bit confused over the speculation as I can't see the sense there... Let's make a quick eyeing on the rules first...

Originally Posted by the rules

1 Hunter – she stands with the innocents, and at any point of the game, she can choose people whom she is going to watch and take with her in case she dies. That effectively means that the Hunter will send me a list of three or less names (maximally up to the number of living Werewolves in game), and if she is killed during the Night and there is a Werewolf on the list, the Werewolf who is first on the list will die alongside her; otherwise, nothing happens. If the Hunter is lynched and there is a Werewolf on the list, the Werewolf who is the first on the list will die alongside her; otherwise, the first person who is on the list will die alongside her.

Now obviously we wouldn't lynch the hunter if s/he revealed during the Day as there is the possibility of an innocent going down. It would ease our choice though for who to lynch: one less to choose from. The downside would be that the wolves would not kill her/him either so we'd face the "believability problem" once again.

With a rivalling call we'd need to be careful as lynching the wrong one would once again make the possibility of an extra innocent dying possible.

Although to be honest, if a hunter doesn't get it right having three chances out of six possibilities, then it's a bit bad hunting...

But anyway, it's for the hunter (and ranger - they can talk, wasn't it so?) to decide.

EDIT: X'd with Sally... and needs to rethink the scenario she gives...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Hmm... I'm a bit confused over the speculation as I can't see the sense there... Let's make a quick eyeing on the rules first...


Now obviously we wouldn't lynch the hunter if s/he revealed during the Day as there is the possibility of an innocent going down. It would ease our choice though for who to lynch: one less to choose from. The downside would be that the wolves would not kill her/him either so we'd face the "believability problem" once again.

With a rivalling call we'd need to be careful as lynching the wrong one would once again make the possibility of an extra innocent dying possible.

Although to be honest, if a hunter doesn't get it right having three chances out of six possibilities, then it's a bit ad hunting...

But anyway, it's for the hunter (and ranger - they can talk, wasn't it so?) to decide.

Good point (the underlining) but make sure to take my view into consideration.

Not to be rude, but a living hunter is a useless hunter. Whether or not they have their picks right we'll learn something. In fact we can advise them on how to pick if we want, though of course it is their choice in the end. I'd at least be willing to give it a shot, assuming they do indeed decide to come out. It'd teach us a lot about the alignment of people, based on how they reacted to lynching the hunter once they discovered their list, etc. The only way to find out is to try?


EDIT: Didn't realize Nogrod had x'd with me, so I'll let him think it over before I respond further.

[Nogrod]

Just a minute!

So what you Sally are saying is that the hunter might come forwards and say "heres my three suspects: A, B and C. Now lynch me"?

Let me speculate first with just one lynch to make it easier to count...

So we lynch the hunter and if s/he has a wolf there s/he takes the wolf down and only one wolf is left. Great job!

But if s/he hasn't a wolf on the list, s/he will take one innocent with her/him from the list, but we will know then the two others are innocents. Now the ranger can save the one the wolves would try to kill or not, that would be 50-50. But also we would know that two out of four (those not on her/his list) would be the wolves.

Needs to think more... with the help of a lung-destroyer...

EDit: X'd with all the last speculations...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just a minute!

So what you Sally are saying is that the hunter might come forwards and say "heres my three suspects: A, B and C. Now lynch me"?

Let me speculate first with just one lynch to make it easier to count...

So we lynch the hunter and if s/he has a wolf there s/he takes the wolf down and only one wolf is left. Great job!

But if s/he hasn't a wolf on the list, s/he will take one innocent with her/him from the list, but we will know then the two others are innocents. Now the ranger can save the one the wolves would try to kill or not, that would be 50-50. But also we would know that two out of four (those not on her/his list) would be the wolves.

Needs to think more... with the help of a lung-destroyer...

EDit: X'd with all the last speculations...

The hunter only gets two picks, dear, as there are two wolves. Unless you know something I don't.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just a minute!

So what you Sally are saying is that the hunter might come forwards and say "heres my three suspects: A, B and C. Now lynch me"?

Let me speculate first with just one lynch to make it easier to count...

So we lynch the hunter and if s/he has a wolf there s/he takes the wolf down and only one wolf is left. Great job!

But if s/he hasn't a wolf on the list, s/he will take one innocent with her/him from the list, but we will know then the two others are innocents. Now the ranger can save the one the wolves would try to kill or not, that would be 50-50. But also we would know that two out of four (those not on her/his list) would be the wolves.

Needs to think more... with the help of a lung-destroyer...

EDit: X'd with all the last speculations...

No, Nog, the hunter only has a list of two. There are only two wolves alive.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Seriously messed up in the head? And then the CAPS lock? You don't consider that a rude tone? Sorry, but I do.

Shasta, someone's gotta go every day. I'm sure Lottie might think it sucks, I don't know, but she should understand this is how it works. Is that cold? A little...I'll send Lottie a message or something to make-up for it. Offensive? No, it's a game we have to decide who leaves it. When we're wrong we wipe our hands and move on. It does no good to berate people for being wrong. So, like I said get off your high horse like you're some righteous innocent protector.



What words are you talking about? I said yesterday if people thought I was too big of a question mark, I would have been perfectly fine with being lynched. If it comforts you, you can sacrifice me today, if this is the way you're going to be I don't care at this point. But there is no way in hell we are killing 2 people today because you're emotions are high.

Calming down a bit...

Alright.

First off, I apologize for the first thing I said today. Believe it or not, I meant it to come out jokingly, and it didn't turn out that way. I didn't mean to insult anyone, and I'm sorry.

Secondly, I'm making such a big deal out of the way Lottie's lynch went down because I know there are people who act just like that when they're evil. Phantom is one.

Thirdly, the "words" I'm talking about are when you said I want to lynch people because I'm mad. Not true.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Calming down a bit...

Alright.

First off, I apologize for the first thing I said today. Believe it or not, I meant it to come out jokingly, and it didn't turn out that way. I didn't mean to insult anyone, and I'm sorry.

Secondly, I'm making such a big deal out of the way Lottie's lynch went down because I know there are people who act just like that when they're evil. Phantom is one.

Thirdly, the "words" I'm talking about are when you said I want to lynch people because I'm mad. Not true.

Edit: X'ed with Sally.

Fair enough, I take back my high horse comments. Sorry, sometimes I read things as "what are you doing?" as "you're an idiot."

You were right about Lottie, I was wrong. Let's leave it at that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Fair enough, I take back my high horse comments. Sorry, sometimes I read things as "what are you doing?" as "you're an idiot."

'S alright. I take offense to things a lot sometimes.

Now, after all that, I still think you're a wolf.