WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it brought some new questions and stuff, but I cannot really focus on that anymore. It brought at least sort-of peace of mind in the sense that I have sort of confirmed to myself that there is only one sensible way for me to vote now. And if nothing else, it is sort of giving Greenie's yesterDay's vote and suspicion of Nogrod a support post mortem. If she ever dreamt of a Wolf, it was most likely him.

++Nogrod

Good night, people.

[Inziladun]

As I did with Glirdan, I have the feeling this is too easy.
However:

1. I didn't like Nog's nitpicking me on Day 1 about my comments on ww's vote.

2. Greenie voting him 'just because he's Nog' would seem more likely to me for a Day 1 vote from her, not a Day 3. It seems odd that she would have singled him out like that for no reason when there were seemingly better candidates, which was why I suspected she might be a wolf.

3. I don't have any better ideas at the moment.

4. I have to leave now, and I probably won't make it back before DL.

++Nog

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin appearing*

Sorry. I have been writing the Arda Cup 10 game results and now need to pull off to sleep.

Originally Posted by Legate

And if nothing else, it is sort of giving Greenie's yesterDay's vote and suspicion of Nogrod a support post mortem. If she ever dreamt of a Wolf, it was most likely him.

If she had dreamt of a wolf wouldn't she have told us so? I still don't get this logic you all (well most of you talking the last few hours) seem to cherish.

Let me put this theory bluntly: If Greenie dreamt of a Wolfgrod, then she knew he would kill her. So why didn't she reveal openly, thus telling everyone who the innocents are (so who we should not vote in the future) and secure her one more dream?

A seer doesn't fool the innocents, she tries to fool the wolves. But if the theory you are bringing forwards is true it means Greenie revealed herself to the baddies but didn't give any hints to the goodies.

Just how probable you think that is?


Anyway. Bedtime for me.

Heh, I remember you Brinn making something like an argument on my placement of my vote earlier. You know what, I need to go to sleep and I can't control when the other people make their votes... I think Lommy made quite a reasonable rant on the issue already. Sadly we Europeans can't just choose to hang on or to tactically vote "early". 4.30AM is about the most devillish DL there is.

So I will vote for either Shasta or Aganzir (I could go with Lommy as well). The two look like possible pals. Agan just looking too happy to get an innocent lynched with a general support and not making an effort to consider. So a wolf who just loves what is going on and cares not? Shasta was making that totally weird point of Agan being dreamt of by Greenie. There is no way you can honestly make that interpretation from Greenie's posts (as you can check form the quotes). So there is another agenda there? Is it that you try to help Agan or you just try to butter up with her?

I'll go with

++ Shasta

If I'd to have one more Day to make my best (as I have time then) then Shasta is my best bet as he already has two votes. But also I could say that with the two of them, Agan and Shasta, it is easier to see him as trying to play it for the mate. With Agan it might be that she was just lazy. (Well, were she just lazy, she wouldn't have been that comfortable... you know, wolves can be comfortable with lynches as they know the role of the one who is lynched, we innocents can't be that comfortable).

But Shasta's defence of Agan-dream by Greenie is just plain false so he is either a fool or false. I don't think he's a fool so I must conclude he is false.


Blah.

Seeing the latest votes... thanks so much friends. I really appreciate your attentiviness. But as you said, we can afford the mislynch. So no major harm done, even if I don't exactly like it.

Sadly you're not going to be able to read anything from the votes from toDay if the voting continues like this.

Morsul -> Shasta
Agan -> Nogrod
Lommy -> Nogrod (2)
Skip -> Shasta (2)
Shasta -> Nogrod (3)
Legate -> Nogrod (4)
Inziladun -> Nogrod (5)
Brinn -> Nogrod (6)
Nogrod -> Shasta (3)


It's 6-3 between me and Shasta now and if I counted it right it's 5 votes to come.

Your choice.

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[wintywinty]

*falls from horse*

Did the rules say we have to play mad instead of just having a WW game in a mad setting? Seriously, this is one of the oddest Day 1 beginnings I have ever seen. I dislike the votes so far, though that isn't to say anything on whether they are necessarily signs of wolvery or not.

My contribution toDay will be pretty much horrible - this is the worst possible day for me to be playing Werewolf - but I promise to be much more active in the Days to come! I've got to dash, but I'll return later. Try to be sensible, meanwhile. (It's easy for me to say, of course, given that I won't be around for most of toDay.. )

Greenie gives reasons for little activity.

*falls from horse*
Back again! I'm feeling slightly hyper right now, so don't be annoyed if I'm not making much sense.. But here come some impressions of toDay.

Originally Posted by Mira
wintywinty's vote is more suspicious. I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake. People do tend to follow Fea for no reason.
I don't see Winty's vote as suspicious - nor innocent-looking, for that matter - it just is. Meaning that s/he (which is it, by the way?) could have done that just as well as a wolf as an innocent, and thus drawing conclusions on that seems weird to me. But then, everything here is weird.

Agan is lovely and provides a lot of substance (I'd raise my hat if I had one, unfortunately I only wear a helmet), I don't suspect her - but then, I always suspect her when she's innocent, so maybe she's a wolf now. Gah, I'm flip-flopping. Family vice. Sorry.

Lottie's analysis post was interesting, but I found the "gut feeling"-thing slightly eyebrow-raising. The so-called gut feelings were mostly reasoned points, so why call them gut feelings? It just struck me that calling a point a mere gut feeling kind of lessens the responsibility over it - one can, later, claim it was just a gut feeling, not my fault that we lynched an innocent, whoops.

Lommy is acting purposefully mysterious which strikes me as weird - she's having this manner of "I know something you others don't, let's see if I care to share it!" I don't quite know what to make of it, it's not usual her but then I'm not sure if it's necessarily suspicious either.

Okay, enough ranting, I don't remember if I had something to say about someone else still, so I'll let Lommy post and go to sleep and then do the same myself. Back soon babes!

Doesn’t see my earlier post as suspicious, sees Agan as innocent, thinks Lommy is suspicious.

Originally Posted by Lommy
Darling, I already explained it.
Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottiewill become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

++ Lottie
Votes for Lottie, but hopes she won’t become an easy Day 1 lynch?

Phew. Here at last, been running all day and now it's getting late again. I so wish the Day and Night phases were the other way round... So if I seem to be over-reacting (I fear I am) it's because I'm tired. This will be a mostly self-defensive post. The next one will include something rather more relevant to the game, I hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
So then, Greenie. Her vote post was apologetic, she voted when I was starting to lead the votes (prime bandwaggon spot) and claimed not to have any real reason. If there is a wolf among these four, and I think there is, I'd bet it's Greenie.
Seriously, I know being annoyed won't exactly help a thing, but I can't but be a tad annoyed. What, exactly, are your reasons for suspecting me? I suspected you yesterDay and happened to get the internet after Lommy (we're using the same one) so I voted you only after some others had done that already. That, I suppose, made my vote bandwaggonish. I had a reason to suspect you, I didn't have reason to suspect anyone else, so I voted you. Simple as that. And I think I had voiced my suspicion of you before the bandwagon against you had even started, so you can't claim my vote was just jumping on the bandwagon. As for the apologetic tone of my vote post, I was being honest. It did pop into my mind that I might be pursuing what would turn out a typical Day 1 easy lynch. I made the mistake of saying it aloud – if I had just played more confident than I was no one would have made such a fuss about my vote. Give me better arguments, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nienna
votes Lottie (3rd vote) with what she knows is outrageously bad reasoning
Not quite! Outrageously bad phrasing, more like. The outrageously bad had to do with that I was kind of worried about a typical easy Day 1 lynch, but still wanted to vote for Lottie who I suspected. My reasons for voting Lottie, while not all that great, were still substantial by Day 1 standards.
Greenie defends herself from Lottie attacks for voting Lottie
Originally Posted by Lottie
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

[*highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight*]
Oh, so not outrageously bad reasoning?
Yeah. I was referring to the reasoning that I'm afraid of a typical Day 1 easy lynch but still vote for you. My actual reasoning for suspecting you wasn't outrageously bad. If I still can't make this understood, I suppose I must blame being a non-native speaker for not being able to explain myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mira
Unless I missed something, I wouldn't call not liking gut feelings a valid point.
You did miss something. It was that she called every point she had a gut-feeling, also those that were actual reasoned points and not gut-feelings - which struck me as horribly fishy. But really, discussing this is not fruitful as far as I can see.

Now to write some actual substance. I'm sick of talking about myself.
Greenie once again defending herself for day 1 actions.
Originally Posted by Nienna
I was pretty confident at that point that Lottie was innocent and was willing to vote for mostly anyone to save her.
Okay, but why were you pretty confident about her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by winty
and if they do not say they are the next time they post, Lottie's statement must be true, and we can assume that everything she says in the best interest of the villagers.
Yes, I think we can rather safely assume that Lottie has the village's best interests at heart. But she is not the seer. She doesn't know anybody's role and can be as wrong as any of us.

Eurgh I had some other quotes I wanted to comment on but it seems I've lost them. Off to write a list and then vote. I'll probably be suspected for voting out of the blue this time ( ) because I don't have much of an idea until I've looked at the list of villagers and considered each one in turn.
Gives two clues for Greenie being the seer, saying Lottie is not the seer, and that she will probably be suspected for voting out of the blue, which indicates that perhaps the next vote is someone she dreamed about, but is not someone many expect… Just an idea.
Originally Posted by Lottie
No, I get what you mean now.
Ok, great. Really, I'm sorry if I've sounded cross, I'm just very very tired and it's very very late and I've been up since rather early morning.
Just responding to Lottie
Glirdan – Hmm. I have no read on him myself, others have brought up good points against him, though, but I'd have to investigate myself to form an opinion.

Nogrod – Usually, at this point of the game, I'm convinced he's a wolf. This far I guess he's never been one when we've played together. So now I'm wondering if I should get worried as I've found no reason to suspect him...

Wintywinty – Too little to go on with.

Isabellkya – From what I remember of her she's been making sense and passing unnoticed. I have no reason to suspect her, but she alarms me a little because of being so smooth and sensible.

Mira – Feels innocent though I disagree with her a lot.

Sally – Her behaviour yesterDay around the voting, concerning Lottie, was weird. Other than that, she's been the usual hard-to-read Sally.

Agan – Seems genuine and makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying she's innocent - I know how capable she is of fooling me - but I won't be voting her without a good reason.

Inzil – No effing idea.

Shasta – The reasoning for his vote was rather bad, could be even wolvish - I was a little (green) suspected at that point I think but not much, so voting for me would have been rather ideal: not rubbing people the wrong way, yet not bandwaggoning either. Otherwise he has flown under my radar.

Lottie – I believe her claim though I disagree with her about almost everything.

Nerwen – No idea.

Legate – Seems innocentish this far.

Morsul – No idea.

Nienna – Hmm. Not sure. At times she feels very genuine, at others she feels like a sneaky wolf. Can't say which she is.

Skip – Seems maybe the most innocentish at this point (discounting Lottie and myself, of course), makes sense and feels genuine.

Lommy – Has dropped the mysterious attitude and feels more or less like her innocent self.

Brinniel – I'm leaning towards thinking her innocent. Her reactions seem genuine to me.

Ok, Greenie did not dream of Glirdy, because she says “I’d have to investigate him myself, aka dream of him.” Doesn’t suspect Nogrod, and is worried about not suspecting him. She did not dream of me, because she had no opinion. Suspects Isabellka because she is so sensible, but other than that has no reason to suspect her. Thinks Mira is innocent, but Greenie disagrees with her. Perhaps she has dreamed about people Mira thinks are guilty, but they are actually innocent. Greenie says Sally is hard-to-read. Thinks Agan is innocent, but says she could be guilty, but won’t vote her without a good reason. Perhaps Greenie is trying to seem not-seerish, but still attempting to convince others of Agan’s innocence. No idea on Inzil. Suspects Shasta for wolfish reason of vote. Believes lottie, doesn’t know about Nerwen. Thinks Legate is innocent, no idea about Morsul. Doesn’t know about Nienna. Thinks Skip seems the most innocent of any non-confirmed innocents. (Dream possibly?) Lommy seems innocent. Thinks Brinniel is innocent.
Originally Posted by Lottie
Not at all. And I'm sorry I'm trying to get you lynched, I just happen to think you're evil.
I sincerely hope that you will not succeed in your attempt. Talking about getting people lynched, I'd be interested to know who people are going to vote. I want to go to bed as soon as possible, but I'd like to hear some more opinions before voting..
Wants to hear who people will vote for, perhaps to try to blend in or convince them of a candidate’s guiltiness or innocence.
Eurgh. I'm starting to see why Glirdy is suspected. I didn't like that long post of his at all. Or, it was long, but it included mainly suspicion on one of the village's top suspects and confirming innocent a person everyone's been considering innocent pretty much all Day. He could be an innocent who just suspects the same person as everyone else, but I didn't like the tone of that post.
Thinks Glirdy is guilty, but doesn’t seem like she dreamed of him.
Originally Posted by Shasta
This bugs me. You say my reasoning is bad, but don't explain why.
Right. I'm too tired to look up your vote post so correct me if I'm straying, but I believe you voted me because my vote seemed bandwaggonish. I think I've said enough about that vote already. What struck me as fishy about your vote was not only that it seemed ideally placed for a wolf, but also that voting someone for a bandwaggonish vote is about as easy a reason for a vote one can come up with, one that is seldom questioned though rather flimsy.

I was about to vote for you, but your latest post made me wonder if I should after all, it seemed somewhat genuine and sensible.

Defends herself, says Shasta seems wolfish, then retracts that. Perhaps the indecision leads to a dream?
My usual bed time was approximately four hours ago.

++ Shasta

I'll explain more fully toMorrow, if required. Good night.
Explain more? Perhaps dream about Shasta, and give result the next day?
Originally Posted by Shasta
...Why wouldn't it be required?
I thought I had already given one, and meant that if elaboration on it was required I would do that later. Basically, I voted for you because your vote from Day 1 looked strategically clean (voting for someone that has been somewhat suspected but hasn't gained any votes that far - not causing discord or attracting attention nor yet getting accused of bandwaggoning).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie, about Shasta
If he were a wolf, do you really think he'd try to get me to *stop* blindly ignoring suspicious behavior? No. He'd be happy with the known innocent expressing trust for him, and unless I did have the rest of his packmates pegged (which, if Shasta's a wolf, I'm way mixed up anyay ) and he'd be fine with me chasing down innocents.
I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Could you explain what you mean by this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
As has been noted, this might seem sinister in the way ww sticks with the two candidates that are (apparently) the lynch du jour. Perhaps though, he's now following Lottie's lead as the de facto innocent, at least someone who isn't going to intentionally try to lead us to an innocent lynch. That's why I've been mainly looking at her suspects.
That, I think, is a very dangerous path to take (wow, doesn't that sound epic!) because knowing that Lottie has our best interests at heart isn't saying anything about how accurate her suspicions are. Throughout WW history there have been innocents who bark at the wrong tree for an entire game though they have the village's best interests at heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
And if Nerwen has been making 'great contributions', what's the cause for worry about her?
I don't like this one, either. A wolf can very well make great contributions - a Nerwolf certainly can - and off-handedly dismissing the possibility makes it seem like you are grasping at straws to suspect whoever it was who talked about the great contributions. (I've lost the spot where I found this quote, should check that, probably...)

Now, off to write my Sally-post..
Suspects Shasta, and criticizes Zil for their reasoning.
Originally Posted by Shasta
Or, alternatively, Greenie, maybe you could explain yourself a different way? That'd be great if you weren't too busy.
Explain myself about what? I'm confused. The quotes from yesterDay I picked during the Night phase when I was reading what happened after I went to sleep, I saved them on a Word file and of course wasn't bright enough to note who Inzilresponded to.
Confusing post…
HUGE SALLY POST
-States all reasons for suspecting Sally
I'm back! First off, it seems I've made a mess again with the Inzil-quote-thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzil
When you say one makes 'great contributions', I take that to mean you approve of the things they've said. That's why I thought Glirdan was being contradictory there.
Ok, that's cleared - I understood great to mean considerable of size/quantity/importance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
Okay, after reading through as my much-less-tired self, I still don't like the way Greenie quoted Inzil out-of-context. It seems to me fairly obvious that Inzil thought Glirdan was being contradictory in his post about Nerwen, which is a fair reason for suspicion, so I don't see where the "grasping at straws" fits in. Especially as Inzil looked to be under a bit of suspicion yesterday.
Yeah. It was partly that I misunderstood Inzil, partly that I didn't like the way he seemed to imply that making sense and being a wolf can't go together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
TLDR; Nienna looks slightly worse to me for this comment and Greenie looks worse for saying it makes Nienna look better.
A probably irrelevant question: what does TLDR mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
Anyway, though, my point is that waking up the known innocent from blind suspicion is not a good move for a wolf to make, but it is a good move for an innocent.
Ok, thanks, that cleared - though I'm not sure if I buy your point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lottie
First off, this really does look bad, Morsul. Secondly, what, exactly, do you mean by "It"? Voting early? Bandwaggoning? Because that's what you're doing, and it's not a very good method of getting wolves.
A technical point: getting a wolf lynched usually requires a bandwagon. Just saying. Of course, that isn't to say that I approve of Morsul's early, bandwaggonish vote. I don't.
Clarifications.
I'd prefer voting Glirdan or Nogrod toDay. Glirdan's death, as has been mentioned, would shed light to many things, and his interactions with Sally were very fishy. Nogrod's interactions with Sally looked bad too, and I don't like how he's been slipping under pretty much everyone's radar, being nice and invisible yet contributing. I could also vote Shasta or Inzil, but would prefer one of the earlier two.
Introduces Nogrod, a suspect that not many had suspected at that point. Also, suspects Shasta or Inzil. I am pretty sure Greenie dreamed about Nogrod, Shasta, or both.
Bed-time! I've been flip-flopping on whether to vote Nog or Glirdy, and decided to go for

++ Nogrod

Now I'm not sure if this is a throwaway, I suppose one could see it as such, but I just feel I should stir the pot a bit. I findNogrod very suspicious, he's being too agreeable and nudging things from the background, and his interactions with Sallyseemed quite wolf-on-wolf to me.

I won't be disappointed if Glirdy gets lynched. Unless he's an innocent, of course. That said, good night babes!

Votes Nogrod, its looking more suspicious that Greenie dreamed for Nogrod, because almost no one else considered him before Greenie.
Conclusion: Suspicious1 = Nog, Shasta. Suspicious2 = Zil, Morsul

[wintywinty]

Oh sorry about the formatting, I'm not very good at that yet.

[wintywinty]

++Nogrod

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh, I remember you Brinn making something like an argument on my placement of my vote earlier. You know what, I need to go to sleep and I can't control when the other people make their votes... I think Lommy made quite a reasonable rant on the issue already. Sadly we Europeans can't just choose to hang on or to tactically vote "early". 4.30AM is about the most devillish DL there is.

I know that and I mentioned I would take it into account. But actually, it's not voting early I have a problem with, but the opposite. I'm criticizing you for holding off your vote until it looked like a surefire bandwagon against Glirdan. If you are a wolf, it'd be easy to hide in a large bandwagon...but you'd want to be sure that there was a bandwagon and a good chance that Glirdan would be lynched anyway before contributing to his fate.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

[Lottie, hold your horses! Now new crusades, darling, please. I'm not cliaming Morsul's innocent but I'm sensing another full frontal attack and not sure if that's good...

I'm not going to crusade yet. His illogic was simply annoying and I responded to it.

A crusade is not out of the question, though - he does look suspicious.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Lottie


Should have added a smilie I meant it jokingly I didn't call her lazy. However point taken I apologize.

Again I keep saying it because I'm excited I never list reasons why I voted the way I did? I did list them. I found Sally suspicious and after reading I believe your analysis it seemed confirmed. I voted Glirdan because of Sally's post it made NO sense any other way for me. and Winty voted because of a first post vote followed by "Day 1 who cares"

Winty is new. You've hosted your own game. You shouldn't be comparing yourself to newbies by this point. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

It doesn't say sees "Innocent or Wolf" it says "Their ROLE" Why wouldn't we trust a seers dream Agan... Sorry I'm back on that because I just went through the rules it was bugging me.

and Lottie I feel a challenge there... a wolf saying "I'm beyond suspicion come get me. Of course with no counter reveal I suppose I'll have to trust you.

Lastly I voted first for both wolves... If I knew they would get the most votes for the day I'd be A) psychic and B) insane for offering them up for slaughter.

Still looking at Nerwen.

Okay, this really does look suspicious.

1. What good does it do to play with the idea of suspecting me? It's a waste of time and not at all helpful.

2. As others have commented, this looks awful wolfly.

Originally Posted by skip spence

I'm not so sure who's on top of Lottie's suspect list any longer though.

Neither am I, to be honest. We've already lynched the two that used to top the list.

Now, I noticed something funny about Nog's posts...I'll be back with that in a few minutes...

EDIT: xed with Brinn

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod;627478I do think [B

Greenie[/B] is smart enough to have gathered that.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And Greenie knows that.

He keeps restating this. We all know Greenie's smart. Why does he keep restating this?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Greenie happening to be the seer was a bonus they couldn't have anticipated - but they would love to turn it into their advantage toDay with getting me lynched. *coughLommycough*

I don't like how he uses Lommy as a scapegoat for his lynching. Either they're both wolves and he's trying to clear her by making her seem like THE leading force behind his lynch, or she's innocent and he's furry and he's trying to somehow make her look worse, he's innocent and honestly saw her as the driving force behind the lynch, or I've missed a possibility. She isn't the only one. There have been a huge amount of analyseses toDay.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Someone - Lommy at least (with reservations) and I feel there was someone else as well - came over with an idea that Greenie might have dreamt of Agan and found her innocent? Well let's look at her actual posting on Agan (thank's for the quotes Lottie). This was actually the thing that made me question the knowledge we could gain from such a cryptic seer as Greenie was in the first place (the thing Lommy thought incriminated me... well you can pass your verdict with these quotes).

Did you even read my post? You say you can't remember who else it was, then mentioned the post where I said that in the next breath! I think there's something funny going on between him and Lommy, but I'm not sure what yet.