Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Brinniel]

Okay, I haven't been much on the Downs lately, but I heard about what was happening and wanted to give some input.

First off, I mentioned elsewhere that there should be a 6 game minimum, and I stand by it. Each WW game can play out so differently (especially when it's experimental), so only a couple games will not get you the experience needed to fully understand the concept and how everything works particularly on this site. Blind Guardian, I do think you should wait until you've played a few more games before modding. Nothing against you...I've never even actually played with you, but I don't think you have enough experience. And anyway, it doesn't look like you're on the top of the list.

We need more organisation. So the list...

Alona
Glirdan
Lommy (won't be able to mod until mid-August, feel free to skip until then)
Zil

I think the rule was only four on the list at a time, so perhaps we should keep it at that. Unless we want to pull it up to five, but no more than that. Alona has been MIA for a long time, and unless she plans on modding soon, I think she should be taken off the list. Does anyone want to contact her about it? Glirdan, you've also passed several times...are you ready to mod next, or is there a particular time period you would like to reserve? Lommy wanted to mod around mid-August, so I think we should give her the next game around that time frame. I know we all get busy with RL, so I can understand being on the list and passing a couple times. But if you think you may need to pass more than that, I think it's probably a good idea to either reserve a month that you know you can commit to or not sign up at all. It would prevent someone from floating on the top of a list too long and taking up one of the 4 (or 5) available spaces, and also make things easier for those lower on the list who may not yet be fully prepared.

One last comment I want to make is that we've had too many experimental games. Don't get me wrong, experimental games are a lot of fun. But there should be an even balance of traditional and experimental games which it doesn't seem like there has been lately...correct me if I'm wrong on this, I realise I haven't played a lot of games this season. I would say a game with wolves, ordos, a hunter, ranger, seer, and cobbler (with no unusual twists) could be accepted as traditional. Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer. I don't know if there's a way we can create a balanced system like that...perhaps those who sign up for the mod list could state whether their game is experimental or traditional, it would help. Just a thought...

[Gwathagor]

Thanks for being a good sport, Blind Guardian.

[Blind Guardian]

Not counting noias game, if I play every game I can probably mod after Lottie. Sound good?

Your welcome

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Sally

Wow. I just....wow. I'm sorry, but I've been (and will be) gone. Can someone please fairly and without bias of any kind explain to me what happened in Paranoia's game?

I've read the pms Rikae sent and received, so I guess I'm closest to both informed and unbiased. I'll try my best.

It started at the end of Day2. Paranoia is used to count votes up to the deadline, but not right at the deadline, so my vote, which was going to decide a tie, was not counted. Nobody knew about this rule, so we all assumed things would be counted as usual. This caused some minor complaints on the admin thread, but nothing serious. More problematic was that he also revealed the role of the lynched player, but not who the lynched player was (we now had a tie)! This mistake still hasn't been corrected. Also, the narration indicated that on each Day, a wolf had been voted for.

Wolf-Rikae complained about all this in a pm to the mod and received a problematic reply. Paranoia tried to cheer her up quite elaborately (Rikae was not in need of cheer, but in need of having her complaints be dealt with, so she was a bit annoyed) and in the course of it, he revealed a gifted's role to her (not saying any more than that, since the game is still officially going on). To be fair, he did clear up the narration-thing to her. However, what he also brought up was that he counted cobblers among the baddies, so a village with f.ex. 2 wolves, a cobbler, and 3 innocents would be a losing one, not one on its last Day. All of this clarification appeared only in the pm reply, not on the (admin-) thread.

With the extra knowledge about the gifted, Rikae had no choice but to drop out in order to keep the game fair. Boro and I followed. Paranoia has been missing since the pm to Rikae (I'm not sure whether he even knows about her dropping out). We should be playing Day3 right at this moment.

[wilwarin538]

I obviously completely agree with the new rule about Mods needing to play a certain amount of games first (I'm the one that brought it up to Rikae, and I'm glad to see it's been agreed upon). I think 5/6 games is a good amount.

I also think Brinn's idea about the traditional/experimental thing is good. We could alternate between the two and people should state which they are planning on doing when they sign up. Try to keep some sort of balance so that things don't get out of hand.

I think it'd also be a good idea to go a step further: that first time mods can only do a traditional game, and experimental ones should be left to those who have modded in the past (or at least who have played in a lot of games, like way more than just 6).

Oh, and I also like Boro's co-mod idea for new mods (especially if the new mods game ends up being really big).

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I think it'd also be a good idea to go a step further: that first time mods can only do a traditional game, and experimental ones should be left to those who have modded in the past (or at least who have played in a lot of games, like way more than just 6).

I completely agree with this...

And since we're on the topic of it, mine's definitely experimental and is a rather large game. So in answer to your question Brinn, I'm more or less waiting for a time when there will be about 19 people available to play.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Brinn

Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer.

D'accord about the Hunter and Cobbler, but I think a Seer's the absolute minimum of gifteds we ever had, and I don't see how that role could be dispensed with while still balancing the wolves' advantage of knowledge over the innocents... Might be interesting to have a game with a Seer and no Ranger, though, which would make the Seer think twice or thrice about revealing early... Hmmm...

Generally, I've played in a number of highly experimental games including anything from secret roles to unexpected special events (*cough*Legate's last one*cough*) or both; all of them were competently handled by the respective mod and great fun to play, I'd regret to have missed any of them and would highly regret not having anything like them in the near future. (Come to think of it, the most 'traditional' game in terms of roles'n'rules I've played up to now probably was my first one, Mnemo's Cottage of Lost Play.) On the other hand, I've recently noticed a tendency among mods to outdo each other in terms of experimentality (what I've called the Special Rules Arms Race) - which isn't bad in itself, but could give newcomers who haven't seen anything else a skew idea of what a regular BD WW game is supposed to be like, conveying a false notion that 'anything goes'. So maybe a sort of SALT/START agreement for two or three games could be a good idea?

Originally Posted by wilwa

I think it'd also be a good idea to go a step further: that first time mods can only do a traditional game, and experimental ones should be left to those who have modded in the past (or at least who have played in a lot of games, like way more than just 6).

I've more or less suggested as much above, but I'm reluctant about making it a hard & fast rule - meaning it very much depends on the personality of the mod; e.g. Eönwë's first game (The Night Guard, no idea how many games he'd played before that) featured a highly innovative game design, but was very competently handled. But it would certainly be a good idea to have any mod candidate state what general kind of game they're intending to run so it can be discussed on this thread before they're starting their respective Admin Thread (on which the details can and should be discussed).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitch

I've more or less suggested as much above, but I'm reluctant about making it a hard & fast rule - meaning it very much depends on the personality of the mod; e.g. Eönwë's first game (The Night Guard, no idea how many games he'd played before that) featured a highly innovative game design, but was very competently handled.

I wouldn't want to get too strict about that either– there's been quite a number of successful experimental games run by a newbie.

I agree it might be good to run some more traditional games for a while, if only so newbies can learn the ropes. Also, to put up the "WW FAQ" sticky thread that's been proposed from time to time, but never created.

[Blind Guardian]

@nerwens post

I was thinking of an Official Rules thread. Can I start it?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I was thinking of an Official Rules thread. Can I start it?

Since mormegil is the mod of the parent forum, Middle-earth Mirth, I wonder if he shouldn't be the one to handle it. At any rate, it would take a mod to make the thread sticky.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

One last comment I want to make is that we've had too many experimental games. Don't get me wrong, experimental games are a lot of fun. But there should be an even balance of traditional and experimental games which it doesn't seem like there has been lately...correct me if I'm wrong on this, I realise I haven't played a lot of games this season. I would say a game with wolves, ordos, a hunter, ranger, seer, and cobbler (with no unusual twists) could be accepted as traditional. Though if we wanted to be truly traditional, there would be no hunter or cobbler....and maybe not even a seer. I don't know if there's a way we can create a balanced system like that...perhaps those who sign up for the mod list could state whether their game is experimental or traditional, it would help. Just a thought...

I can assure everyone that what I have in mind is quite traditional. I don't mind something off the beaten path every now and then, but every game having secret roles and strange plot twists is simply too much for my poor, overwhelmed mind to handle.