WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

tum, it would be fair enough to argue the next Day, after Eonwe was dead, that his innocence made you look better.

It's quite another to say this about a still-living lynch-candidate:

Do you really still not understand the difference?

Yes, but then, how often do baddies straight-out say, "Ooo, I do hope we lynch an innocent toDay"? They think it, of course, but they tend to keep that to themselves, rather.

I mean, I'm not saying what she said doesn't sound bad, but it's also just... weird.

Is it possible that tum is an innocent who still hasn't quite grasped the idea that WW is a team-game, and thinks it's about winning by herself? Some newbies do see it that way... but then I know she's played several games before this.

I really think that you are looking into the wording too much. I never meant anything bad out of it. It's like when you're getting blamed for something that you didn't do, and then it comes to light later on that you were right. It was a bad thing for me to do. What I did was a lapse in judgment. I'll try not to do this in the future.

I know that this is a team-game, and I DO want to get the wolves.

Edit: x-ed everyone since my last post

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by autume98

I really think that you are looking into the wording too much. I never meant anything bad out of it. It's like when you're getting blamed for something that you didn't do, and then it comes to light later on that you were right. It was a bad thing for me to do. What I did was a lapse in judgment. I'll try not to do this in the future.

I know that this is a team-game, and I DO want to get the wolves.

Edit: x-ed everyone since my last post

By wording, do you mean the post itself? Because I can't think of any other way to interpert that post than a suspicious one. You say that you're being blamed for something you didn't do, but then say that it was bad anyway. Wolves are the ones who worry about how they come across to other people, Tum. Not innocents. And you've made it very clear that you care over much about how you come across.

EDIT: xed with Keepandir of Dol Mira

[Nienna]

List:

Very Suspicious:
Tum

Sort of Suspicious
Zil - for reasons mentioned in my analysis post
Lalaith - her most recent vote seems a little off... maybe it's because I haven't seen much to suspect Lottie
Phantom - something about him today has been rubbing me the wrong way... maybe it's his assault on Sally which I think is very unfounded or his strong desire to see me lynched...

Hesitant about: I need to look into these players more... they are coming under heavy suspicion and I want to check it out myself
Mac
Nog
Nerwen

Need more from:
Kath
Mira
Folwren
Shasta

feeling ok:
Wilwa
Lottie
Greenie
Rikae

Pretty sure as innocent:
Sally

Edit: Crossed since Mira

[autume98]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oooo I can answer that!

I want to lynch you. Why? Because I think you're evil.

Reason?

Originally Posted by Rikae

...you've given a general impression of following wherever you think the trend may be headed (your sudden "suspicion" of me seemed to be a direct response to Inzil's questioning of you...Plus, you used chatspeak.

So I had to go back to see what you were talking about. And found this:

Originally Posted by tum

That was an illogical plan that came to me as I was typing. It wasn't a ploy. It would've been a ploy if I pushed for it. In the end I negate it. With what you pointed out I would've negate it after that too. I don't want to lynch innocents.

I am beginning to wonder about Rikae's vote. I know I made a comment about it, but the first sentence was all said in fun...nothing was meant by it. My second line was about the fact that I wasn't sure who guilty at the time. Even then I didn't deem it appropriate to throw away my vote. I would take a look at her, but I have to be at work. If no one else does before I get back then I will.

The first paragraph is in direct response to what Inzil said. The second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with what Inzil said. I should've separated it out a little bit better. I can see where you get that it's a direct response to what Inzil said. However I'm not sure how you get that I was following the trend with your example since no where in his post did he say you were suspicious.

Edit: x-ed with everyone since my last post

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Loslote

By wording, do you mean the post itself? Because I can't think of any other way to interpert that post than a suspicious one. You say that you're being blamed for something you didn't do, but then say that it was bad anyway. Wolves are the ones who worry about how they come across to other people, Tum. Not innocents. And you've made it very clear that you care over much about how you come across.

The only reason I care is because I don't want another innocent to get lynched tonight. Not enough wolf blood has been shed this game. I can see where you are coming from though.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by autume98

The first paragraph is in direct response to what Inzil said. The second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with what Inzil said. I should've separated it out a little bit better.

Yeah, if you had, it would have looked less suspicious. Next time you're a wolf, you might want to remember that.

And you were going with the trend, in this case, in the sense that, as I recall, you were being questioned for praising my vote (which I don't really understand, since self-votes are so thoroughly cool ); plus Inzil jokingly suggested lynching me earlier, based on that same vote. So yes, I do see a connection; not a very logical one, but no less logical than a lot of your other behavior.

[Rikae]

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that.

That is fabulous. Fabulous. And we know the Wereduckling is always right.

Edit: x-ed with Nog

[Macalaure]

I have a half-written Wilwa-analysis, but I'm too tired and nothing makes sense anymore. I'll be around for a while more before I vote early, but don't expect much. I know I'm kind of sucking toDay, but I hope I'll be better toMorrow, provided the lynch mob/wolves/gifteds with kills let me.

And now Nogrod returned and brought a bag of headaches with him...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.


Hey, I'll be off for a little while. Trying to upgrade my computer so she'll be strewn all about the couch. Thus, internet? Not going to be able to poke at it.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

Since I don't think it's likely a wolf's going to pop out of the woodwork and confess, I see no reason to vote anyone except Tum. There's just too much there to ignore. Yes, innocents have acted confusedly before and therefore looked suspicious (don't I know it? ). But here we're talking multiple incidents. I just don't buy that it's just all the work of a misguided innocent.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Anyway bedtime and thus voting time. It crossed my mind - is there a chance Nogrod and Tum could be wolves together? I haven't got time to go back through the whole thread to check now. And I still have reservations about voting for either of them which I have already voiced.

A possible link between Tum and Nog is one thing I'm very curious about. I put what I saw as signs of it here. I'd still rather go for Tum over Nog at this point.

x/d with all since # 669

[Nogrod]

Reading the few first posts and stalling majesticallly...

Originally Posted by Lottie on her Tum copying

“Okay. I think it's likely that she's a wolf. In fact, I think it's probable. If you saw no points in my post, I don't know what to tell you. I wrote down what I saw, and made points for and (more often) against her innocence.”

Sorry, you just describe what she is saying, you’re giving up 0,5% your own… You just say: she said x did Y and didn't appreciate it... Really. Some real effort, please.

Originally Posted by Lottie

“I was going to vote for one of the people I'd thought rationally about, rather than a last-minute "hey, she exists - let's kill her" type bandwagon.”

Why didn’t you protest or let us know of that yesterday? Did you just come up with it? (Nicely done). Why didn't you say - if you were so sure - "hey guys, here's the case against Nogrod I have and you should believe it too after I presented it to you!" Let me tell you why you didn't... You didn't have it as it was all thin air; and anyway you would have tried to build it, it would have been plain false... It's hard to be a wolf who wishes to take the forefront. It actually takes more effort... So back to the boot camp Lottie, try even. I'd hate to die to someone saying "I don't like him" (as you said - nevertheless how you protest, but you said that. And that's the best argument you've made thus far)

So sad that kind of arguments seem to work.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

“Isn't this paragraph self-contradictory? By your own logic, Nog, the wolves had no reason to be active in the voting.”

No. Or yes. I mean they had no urge to save their friends aka. they could be relaxed – that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t drive the voting in the way they wished – like a host of you voting to let me live and thus making me look you guys more nicely. And it works, even if I try to fight against my urge to think positively of you who kept me alive… That is such a sham Nerwen I really am starting to suspect more again... "Needs to be" is a different thing from "wants to be". You can be when you don't have to... With no problem around the lynching (no mates in the fray) you can either drive for someone you'd like to see lynched - or someone whose lynch would benefit you - or defending one whom might benefit you... or whatever, maybe just toss the coin? And really, you're grasping at straws here - and wasting my time as well, as I see now.

I never specified who were the suspicious ones and who were the innocents - because I JUST DON'T FREAKIN' KNOW. You might, or why else do you require me that without giving the answers yourself?

As I said, anyone of you, but not all.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

“And who else was even talking about him being the Cursed yesterDay? I don't say it was never mentioned in passing, but I thought the main question was whether he might be a wolf.”

That’s what you say… Maybe it was not suitable for the wolves to talk about it? Maybe it was even bad for them to talk about it? Blah... You love to keep that interpretation of the reality, but why? I'm not answering that, you should.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

“I hereby dub this type of reasoning "Nogrod's Fork".

I do hereby dub this type of argument as the "Australian stab the sleeping"-argument. It’s closer to the truth as your dubbing – with better grounding - that being more or less in my case.

How does that sound? I did manage to get online… Sorry to ruin your plan. And really that's nasty. Are you, with your mate Lottie, that desperate of doing away with me? I'd think you'd have other problems as everyone can't be wolves - or do you just think I'm the easy target as I'm not around to talk for myself? You two really took your chances after you heard I was going to be away, didn't you? Hadn't you anything better to do?

Am I hitting the right targets? Does it hurt that much?

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:
Quote:

Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...

Well I know because I know my role, and I said twice that I do not expect you to trust it – but after my death. Sorry if two times were not enough.

And there were no others than us three! (Beigei and Eonwë on D1 and Eonwë & me on D2). All innocents – I know that. You know that only up to me. Get used to it.


Oh my, once again, hey Nerwen, get real! English is not my first language, but you should not be allowed to put just anything into my mouth because of that! Really. I’m looking at the nearest object to throw at you right now.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

“Well, maybe it's a language problem, again. But he does sound like he's saying it was a common consensus yesterDay that Steve was a likely Cursed, and it certainly wasn't.”

What? If you have complaints to how your mates perform during the Day when you can't advice them, keep it to them at Nights. Show me someone who knew Steve's role except Steve himself? You knew it? "He certainly wasn't" like you knew it yesterDay, or what are you trying to say? So just stop it then. It was an open thing and we all had our different thoughts about the probability of it, but you can't claim - but in hindsight - to have been 100% sure either way. And I never claimed it was either way, but I gave quite a long arguments why it could be one way or another.

Where were your arguments yesterDay? I mean no hindsight but your arguments before you knew afterwards how it was?

And this then...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

[Nogrod's Fork sure has a lot of tines, hasn't it?

Now this sure gets out of the bounds of ridiculousness itself... Let me see how you put into one shortish post most of the people and why you suspect them! Just let me see you try it without breaking the rule you just laid on my post! And don't use more than twenty minutes into it.
(so do not suspect different people for different reasons there – and be definitive with all your suspicions)

– heh, be a wolf.,. No one else can be that secure and straightforwards - and logical.

Okay. Sorry. I'm really sorry. But reading this thread feels like walking an ever raising climb, rocks falling down to you every minute, and the guys around you whom you thought to climb the mountain trying to drag you down... or just perceiving those guys and none else.

Okay, I’ts getting late and I’m getting more and more annoyed with this… Maybe I just go to sleep and let you do this yourselves - anyway, if you lynch me I can get away from this nauseating problematics of trying to find a net-connection every-other day. You clearly have the wolves - or very ill-reasoned innocents to call the shots. At least the early shots of the Day.

I’m going to have a cigarette and then maybe I’ll read the rest, or then will not bother. I sadly started by way of commenting on every issue that looked like it was worth of commenting - and now I'm just out of any touch to anything that has happened... Okay, I need to try and read the Day through, but I'm not sure I'm able to give any decent comments after that...

But I'll try.