WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[A Little Green]

Are you guys kidding me? This is pretty much the most quiet early Day ever. My fellow Europeans, where are you? Well, at least I had Nerwen.

Anyway, I have to go now. I won't be back toDay, and like I said in the admin thread I'll miss all of toMorrow. While I'm away, will you catch us some more wolves? Please? I wouldn't mind if you tried Mac toMorrow. As for toDay, I think it's pretty obvious:

++ Rikae


See you the Day after toMorrow, provided that a) I'm still alive, and b) that the game is still on! With the best possible luck, the village could have won by then. (It would take a successful lynch toMorrow and Zeus choosing to revenge-kill and picking a wolf, but it's possible.)

[Folwren]

It has been quiet today. Considering what happened last night, I figured more people would be eager to post something. I got out of bed particularly early just to see what was going on.

How are we certain that Nerwen isn't a wolf? She was really at Nogrod's throat yesterday. But, then, a wolf probably would not make such a fuss against anybody because of the suspicion possibly placed on them later. A clever wolf might, and might be able to get away with it.

I wish Greenie were not gone. I'd like to know why she suspects Mac. He said this in post 620:

I'm getting uneasy about Wilwa, but I can't put my finger on why. I need to take a closer look at what she said when I get to it. Same with Inzil. And Nienna.

He expressed his concern again, later in thread, in post 632, when he lists out all the players to say who he suspects and the ones he suspects most are Wilwa and Inzil.

I'm going back to bed.

-- Foley

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

How are we certain that Nerwen isn't a wolf? She was really at Nogrod's throat yesterday.

Yeah, because he was acting very suspiciously. I wasn't the only one to think so.

Originally Posted by Folwren

I wish Greenie were not gone. I'd like to know why she suspects Mac. He said this in post 620:

He expressed his concern again, later in thread, in post 632, when he lists out all the players to say who he suspects and the ones he suspects most are Wilwa and Inzil.

That doesn't really prove anything, and besides, she's already said why she suspects Mac:

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Now I might be way off with this, but I'm getting worse vibes from Mac again. Partly because he's being overly nice to me (makes me think he's trying to mess with my head because I suspect him - he would know that it's always harder to suspect someone who is quite convinced you are innocent). Partly because of the Hades thing that was discussed quite much on Day 2. And partly because I got the impression, when reading over yesterDay with the knowledge that Rikae is a wolf, that her sudden suspicion of him (after defending him for the first couple of Days) seemed wolf-on-wolf-ish.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so let's recap yesterDay Evening.

Sally suggests that Hestia comes out and we test one of his/her dreams (with a more specific suggestion being the lynching of Nog). No one likes Sally's plan.

Apollo (Tum) is forced to come out at the end of the Day to save herself.

Nog is lynched to save Tum (and in a way to test her legitimacy).

Nog's role matches the role Tum was shown.

Tum is proven to be our true seer, and is now in danger because she had to come out.


Notice the bit where we followed my plan, except pretty much backward? Yeah, I'm just sayin'.

Also, I want to know why Nog had such a problem being lynched if he was the Unicorn. This was the best point for him to get lynched; the odds of him bringing someone back were the highest they possibly could be. (I know, he didn't get to come back, but I mean to say that any point after this his chances would have gone down.) Add that to his inability to participate *squishes* and I don't see the issue. Meh.

Oh, did I mention? MY PLAN WAS FLIPPING BRILLIANT AND WOULD HAVE SAVED OUR SEER! *chills* I'm. Just. Sayin'. *snuggles Tum tightly, hopes the rangers love her enough to protect her properly and LISTEN TO ME for a change* Okay, I'm done here.

I have to go to church in a bit, and then I'll be with Phantom and Tum all day, but I'll see what I can do about looking into people a bit more. I've been really bad at concentration this game, hence more commentary and plotting than analyses.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, did I mention? MY PLAN WAS FLIPPING BRILLIANT AND WOULD HAVE SAVED OUR SEER! *chills* I'm. Just. Sayin'. *snuggles Tum tightly, hopes the rangers love her enough to protect her properly and LISTEN TO ME for a change* Okay, I'm done here.

Oh yeah, because the seer is in so much danger with two rangers about.


Just wanted to apologize, people. Everything that's gone wrong has been my fault, from picking the wrong kills to getting myself dreamed of. I really have no idea why people consider me such a formidable player; I'm just an idiot.

[Lalaith]

Morning all. Firstly I'd like to give kudos to our Eros/Artemis duo, a successful save and a wolf-kill, a very impressive record indeed.
Secondly, [Reallife] I am out at a wedding and won't be around much at all [/Reallife]

Luckily there's very little debate about who to vote for which is handy.
++Rikae

Just in case I don't get back on toDay.

Also, I don't have time to analyse wilwa today, I'm glad Nerwen is but perhaps someone else can do it too - no offence Nerwen but its good to get two perspectives when we don't know who to trust. That might give us some ideas for toMorrow.
Also, Tum will have had another dream so more may be revealed later today I expect.
One thing I did have time to do yesterday is try to make sense of Day 3 voting.
Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)
Rikae --> Tum
Nienna --> Tum (4)
Tum --> Rikae
Sally --> Nog (2)
Lottie --> Nog (3)
Phantom --> Nog (4)
Folwren ---> Lottie (4)
Nerwen ----> Nog (5)
__________________
Non-voters - Shasta and Kath

I think that's right, but please feel free to check my tally to make sure it's correct.

[satansaloser2005]

Aso, Tum, did you catch us a wolf last Night? *is hopeful*


Really going now. Back later.

[Nerwen]

Wilwa, Day Two.

408. We shouldn't take too much notice of what Boro-Hermes said, as he might be false. "Speculates" on why he was killed. (Wolves enjoy doing that, sometimes.) Doesn't get the "Hades-hints" that some players saw in Mac's posts. Doesn't like reasoning in Steve's self-defence; favours lynching him. Says the "Cobbler" reference in the Hestia role-description is just a mistake by Glirdy. Now agrees with Nog that my "Hades" comment could have been a hint.


#436. Suspicion-list. Lalaith, Kath, Rikae and I look good. Tum, Nienna, Zil, Lottie, Mira and Shasta are under her radar. Is "confused" about Sally, phantom, Folwren, Greenie, Nog and Eonwe. Might vote for the last-named.

Comment: Generally, wolves distribute their fellows amongst the categories; this is a minor argument against Lalaith and Kath being wolves.


#439. Left Mac off list; corrects this and says he should be in her "okay" category, because she doesn't thinking he was hinting. Tells tum BG's "good looks" remark is probably a hint.

#445. Tells the phantom that, contrary to his belief (#443) she did not say he was "touchy". Tells tum again about the Aphrodite hint.


#456. Votes Eonwe.

General Comments:Still not that much to go on; link to Mac possible, though. So far, Wilwa seems to have been careful to leave a small trail. I wonder what tipped Lottie off?

EDIT:X'd with Sally, Lal and Sally again; added comment.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, I want to know why Nog had such a problem being lynched if he was the Unicorn. This was the best point for him to get lynched; the odds of him bringing someone back were the highest they possibly could be. (I know, he didn't get to come back, but I mean to say that any point after this his chances would have gone down.) Add that to his inability to participate *squishes* and I don't see the issue. Meh.

Well, Greenie and I both think he was trying to get lynched, and that's why he was acting so weird. I know he kicked and screamed a lot on the way to the gallows, but maybe he thought that was called for.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, did I mention? MY PLAN WAS FLIPPING BRILLIANT AND WOULD HAVE SAVED OUR SEER! *chills* I'm. Just. Sayin'.

All right, yes, you win. Only may I point out that tum would have been forced to reveal regardless of whether we'd agreed to your plan or not?

EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, Greenie and I both think he was trying to get lynched, and that's why he was acting so weird. I know he kicked and screamed a lot on the way to the gallows, but maybe he thought that was called for.

You have a point. It would make a lot more sense, and definitely explain why he was being so....yeah, not Nog. Makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

All right, yes, you win. Only may I point out that tum would have been forced to reveal regardless of whether we'd agreed to your plan or not?

Flippin' right I do.

Erm, how so? If Hestia came out yesterDay we'd likely have concentrated on what he/she said rather than this Tum wagon. (And might I say, I understand her weirdness now. First time gifteds can be uber-twitchy.) Then again, I can't predict what people would have done, but I think we'd still have not had such a wagon against her yesterDay if she hadn't been a huge topic of discussion. *shrugs*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Erm, how so? If Hestia came out yesterDay we'd likely have concentrated on what he/she said rather than this Tum wagon. (And might I say, I understand her weirdness now. First time gifteds can be uber-twitchy.) Then again, I can't predict what people would have done, but I think we'd still have not had such a wagon against her yesterDay if she hadn't been a huge topic of discussion.

Well, maybe not– but we did still have to lynch somebody, didn't we?

EDIT:X'd with Rikwolf.

[Folwren]

No time to read a word. Just wanted to get here and vote -

++Rikae

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Ridiculous amount of family drama going on. No time to comment, but sort of read.

++Rikae

[the phantom]

Has anyone posted a complete voting break-down (every single day in one post)? That would be super.

And I see old Mac is dead. See? I was right about him too. Hey, I realize I'm not setting the world on fire this game, but I have at least correctly called BG, Steve, Lottie, and Mac. That earns me some points, right?

I don't like Folwren as much any more. I thought it was possible that she was a Seer actually because of some things she said Day 1 and 2, and now I wonder if she was paving for a false reveal.

And Meeper- I still think she's insane, but probably innocent.

Kath- she looks pretty good. Nothing to do with being a Wolf, of course, but just thought I'd mention it.

Originally Posted by Sally

Oh, did I mention? MY PLAN WAS FLIPPING BRILLIANT AND WOULD HAVE SAVED OUR SEER! *chills* I'm. Just. Sayin'

No, it wasn't. And no, it wouldn't have. You're deluded.

And your mother is a hamster.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The wolves have killed Lottie, bye bye, Artemis (Hunter), rest in peace with the knowledge that you have slain the mighty Hera. That means, bye bye to you too Wilwa, serves you right....witch!

Let day Commence!

Edit: And checking the Admin thread, this means Zeus, PM a name to Glirdan and choose to either kill, protect, discover person's role, or cast extra vote by Days end.

Well, done, Artemis! You did your task well. I wonder what Zeus will decide to do? Getting a Seer dream would be the most productive, especially since he's now on the side of the village. That is, of course, unless he's bloody sure of another wolf.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Wow. Cheers Lottie! What I'm wondering about right now, though, is why the wolves picked her. She had dropped a rather clear Hunter hint on Day 2id the wolves a) miss or forget that, or b) think she was double-bluffing to avoid being Night-killed (or for some other reason), or c) have something rather more complicated in mind?

Lottie does seem like an odd choice. She had garnered a fair amount of suspicion on her own, and could well have been yesterDay lynch. I wonder if she may have said something that made them exceptionally nervous yesterDay.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, concerning Poseinog's death.
Unless I have misunderstood something, the fact that he didn't come back must mean that Glirdan picked either a wolf or a false seer to be brought back with him - and since we had not killed a wolf yet, it must logically follow that Boro was picked and was the false seer. Which, in turn, would make autume the real seer, which, in turn, would confirm Rikae as a wolf, which, in turn, would mean we'll have two wolves dead after toDay. (An addition: we also have two seers who both know whether they are true or false.) I kind of like all that. On the down side, though, even after Rikae we still have two wolves (Hades and Hephaestus) to find.

I don't think there's any question Tum is one of the real Seers. Nog's death proved it for me. And the fact that she's the real one ought to be a good clue to Hestia: DON't leave us any clues about your dreams if you picked Boro.
And two wolves are not good, but they're better than four, at least.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Now I might be way off with this, but I'm getting worse vibes from Mac again. Partly because he's being overly nice to me (makes me think he's trying to mess with my head because I suspect him - he would know that it's always harder to suspect someone who is quite convinced you are innocent). Partly because of the Hades thing that was discussed quite much on Day 2. And partly because I got the impression, when reading over yesterDay with the knowledge that Rikae is a wolf, that her sudden suspicion of him (after defending him for the first couple of Days) seemed wolf-on-wolf-ish. (I'll try to bring up actual quotes soon, I have a horribly busy day but I'll try anyway.)

It's certainly possible. Rikae is both nervy and experienced enough to do some convincing wolf-on-wolf. I don't know about Mac though. My wariness about him has gradually been diminishing over the last Day or two, but he does need some scrutiny.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I suppose he might have been hoping to bring Boro back– though I'd have wanted some indication first that Boro was in fact the true Seer, if it had been me.

I think Nog was trying to get lynched just so he could bring any innocent back. If any one had come back, they'd have done so as an ordo, wouldn't they? And there was a 2/3 chance he would have been successful and brought back either BG or Steve. Three known innocents running around would have been such a headache for the wolves.

It is very quiet, considering all the drama. I'm waiting for what Tum can tell us toDay about her latest dream. Let's just hope it wasn't Lottie or Wilwa. Also, Tum should have had one more dream in addition to Nog and Rikae, I think.

x/d with all since # 874

[Inziladun]

++Rikae

[Inziladun]

He just posted on the Admin thread that he's dropping out. He says he's one the Shirrifs, Hercules.

x/d with Nerwen

[Inziladun]

Trying to look at possible links of people with Rikae, I thought this was interesting.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, I'd say that was a nice scene I just wrote, and...
people, people, people. Can't say I was wild over the original candidates, but this last minute scrambling isn't likely to do much good either... I mean, Nienna? Why her? You'd do as well to lynch me, and I already have a vote.

She's a wolf. Why would she care about Nienna's death, unless the latter is a packmate? It couldn't mean Nienna is her lover, either, since Tum has already told us Rikae is Ares.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Rikae - 2.5 hours of analysis later.

29 – Mostly banter, doesn’t think much of Boro’s Zeus comment
32 – Jokes at being a wolf
69 – First post of content, explains to Foley that we don’t always need to be serious to be useful, mentions how another role will be revealed when Poseidon comes back
76 – explanation and call for Mod-god interference about lovers and their goals
80 – She mentions that the false seer can lead the village astray with false information and that that is worse than baddies being able to narrow down their potential-seer list
82 – Mentions lovers or anyone trying to save wolves can happen especially in a game like this. Also reiterates how moot the point about Romeo-Juliet lovers is concerning what happens when a partner dies
83 – Both seers are probably leaving trails
88 – Admits that she may misread seer/false seer hints
90 – Nerwen’s “Hades” comment could be leaving hints at Persephone but could just as easily be something else
100 – Converses with Phantom about his lovers talk, mentions how his way can create a suspect where there may actually be no grounds as people’s playing styles vary so much
104 – Mentions how there isn’t generally any reason for the false seer to keep quiet though maybe there is in some circumstances
108 – Thinks Nog’s idea about Seers revealing is interesting but that if there is a false reveal it may tie up a ranger
111 – Says it’s up to individuals to play as they want to. The wolves also get the same information that the village gets and there is no reason to suppose they will miss seer-hints
121 – Didn’t think that Nerwen was trying to get Persephone to pick her and that maybe Mac was trying to confuse Persephone into picking her
128 – Mentions that joking banter may contain hints too Interesting with her own joking banter which could be wolvish – see later as well
133 – Mentions that Steve joking about Dionysus could just be him having too much to drink
137 – Is most suspicious of those seeing hints everywhere than those supposedly leaving hints
142 – Didn’t know Steve’s age and thinks we can just lynch the cursed after they are turned
145 – If Steve is the cursed then he helped the village without knowing it because the wolves wouldn’t pick him now anyway
158 – On Boro’s Zeus-hints: Phantom started it, and Lal kept it going – wonders about Phantom’s intentions in that were
179 – “allied to Zeus” could mean wolf’s lover but she doesn’t think that’s what Boro meant
194 – Doesn’t think that Mac is a lover just because he was suspicious of Boro being a lover
198 – Thinks because the narration will say when the cursed is turned there is no reason to lynch Steve now. Doesn’t want to vote BG because she hasn’t really shown she’s a wolf but she may vote for her because of not participating. Other suspects include Nerwen (though she thinks her suspicion might be based on IC banter and nothing else), Phantom but he hasn’t explained himself and it would be a throwaway, and Wilwa for trying to stir up suspicion about Boro but still keeping her hands clean (also thinks that would be a throwaway)
213 – Admits it must be frustrating for BG but says she has to participate more or why bother. Won’t vote BG (too harsh) or Steve (hasn’t had time to explain himself). Votes Phantom because it should happen more on Day Ones. This doesn’t actually bother me at all… she suspected Phantom a little bit and it seems like as reasonable for a Day One vote as any other
223 – Says she always defends Mac even when they aren’t on the same side

Day 2

334 – Thinks Boro must have coupled his Seer-hints with correct suspicion (accidental or not) as he was killed. Boro also could have coupled Seer and Hunter hints so maybe he didn’t point to a baddie at all and the wolves called his bluff… or he could be the false seer
336 – Mentions it’s weird that Nerwen argued her and Mac weren’t wolf-on-wolf when that’s not even what Nog said
345 – Torn about Mac’s wording about “frustrating to be alone”… chalks it up to second language
350 – Says she knows what Phantom is up to and is more concerned about Nerwen. Doesn’t like people picking on her “sweetie” so much, calls him sweetie again in an edit to the post interesting use of pet names which as I’ve mentioned I don’t believe I’ve seen before…maybe her being playful, maybe not
352 – Now wondering where all the Steve-is-not-the-cursed stuff is coming from, leaning toward Phantom being Zeus and that being what Boro dreamed
354 – Still thinks Phantom is Zeus but not that he should be lynched, it’s debatable anyway
378 – After re-reading Mac’s “frustrating” comment she is pretty sure it is because of English being his second language
412 – Explains that Nerwen was probably talking about Hades the place not the person
467 – Wants to look at the Inzil/Tum stuff and Tum’s voting of BG after finding her innocent
474 – Doesn’t buy Tum being a wolf, doesn’t buy Mac being a wolf, doesn’t buy Steve being a wolf. Votes herself saying that she is the “wolviest wolf that ever howled at the moon” This is the second time she joked at being a wolf and on Day Two when voting matters a little more
485 – More fake (?) lover banter with Mac
526 – Doesn’t like the last minute scrambling for a random lynch candidate
529 – Thinks Mac is behind the lynch-someone-not-Steve business so now she wonders if maybe it would be wise to lynch him

Day 3

593 – Has some problems with Lottie’s Tum-analysis, doesn’t think Sally’s Hestia plan is best, she doesn’t approve of bandwagons
602 – Doesn’t want to get lynched with chat-speak
608 – Sadly doesn’t have any assassination power

Conclusions: Generally she has been very helpful and even reprimanding to the village where it is needed. She's been logical and consistent. The only thing that worries me a tiny bit is her joking about being a wolf. I don’t think she is a wolf but it is interesting. She is also very flippant about her own lynching which leads me to think that maybe she doesn’t have one of the more important roles... maybe a lover (with all the lover banter) which could mean she can have assassination powers later.

I find it notable that at the end she writes a glowing summary of how good Rikae is, but leaves that very small bit of doubt based around Rikae's joking declarations of lupinity. Did anyone who's innocent really take Rikae seriously there? She says things like that all the time! It seems a strange thing for someone to choose as a reason to be wary of Rikae. More like a packmate saying "Hmm. I don't need to be totally in favour of Rikae, so I'd better put an inconsequential reason as to why I don't completely trust her". And the bit about Rikae possibly being a lover? Could that have been intended to dissuade the Seer from dreaming her? "Doesn't have one of the more important roles"?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

He just posted on the Admin thread that he's dropping out. He says he's one the Shirrifs, Hercules.

Well, there goes that theory. So Wilwa's Day One and Two posts have pointed exactly nowhere.

Originally Posted by Zil

I find it notable that at the end she writes a glowing summary of how good Rikae is, but leaves that very small bit of doubt based around Rikae's joking declarations of lupinity. Did anyone who's innocent really take Rikae seriously there? She says things like that all the time! It seems a strange thing for someone to choose as a reason to be wary of Rikae. More like a packmate saying "Hmm. I don't need to be totally in favour of Rikae, so I'd better put an inconsequential reason as to why I don't completely trust her". And the bit about Rikae possibly being a lover? Could that have been intended to dissuade the Seer from dreaming her? "Doesn't have one of the more important roles"?

Hmmn. Interesting.

EDIT:X'd with Nienna and Sally.

[Nerwen]

Wilwa, Day One.

#22. Banter. Comments on Boro's post (#19), discusses game mechanics with regard to the Lovers. Is unsure why Boro has singled Zeus out.

Comment: May be trying to persuade the remaining Lovers that it's in their interests to turn cobbler. As Boro's post contained obvious Seer-hints, it may also be Wolfwa had noticed this and was hoping to draw him out as to who he had dreamed.


#26. Thinks that Boro's "allied with almighty Zeus" line referred to phantom as Hera.


#35. Accepts Rikae's suggestion that the phrase simply referred to the village.


#38. Will check out roles.


#46. Lists roles.

#50. Explains Sally's statement (#44) that there are "essentially ordo" roles in the game.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Unicorn is like an Ord, something only happens with their death. Persephone and Aphrodite are like Ordos until they've been found (and will remain so if their matches die before finding them). Mytho could become an Ordo if they choose certain people. The Cursed is like an Ordo until (if) they get chosen by the Wolves.

Comment: Possibly a subtle attempt to influence the Cursed and Lovers?


#63. Talks about the Lovers' alignment; ponders the meaning of the "cobbler" reference in the Unicorn role-description.


#65. More about the Lovers.


#70. Answers a question by Nog about the rules.


#178. Doesn't want to discuss False Seer; says Lover-talk has taken up too much of the Day. Says Boro's and my own "hints" wereprobably just banter. Doesn't want to lynch Eonwe.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

But if he's the Cursed we shouldn't be killing him. Well, there is another option for what he could be doing (to help the village). But if I'm right than me saying it could kind of ruin it, so I'll stay quite for now.

Considers whom she'll vote– BG for lack of participation, or Mac for claiming Boro's "Zeus" remark was a Lover-hint, as this "makes no sense".

Comments: Had Wolfwa bought the theory that Eonwe was the Cursed? If so, it seems her packmates talked her out of it.


#182. Says that the narration would have to reveal the Cursed's role, just not whether he's been turned.


#187. Might vote for Blind Guardian; will not vote for Boro or me, nor for Eonwe since he might be doing something "awesomely helpful". Will probably not vote Mac, as he makes her at most "uneasy".


#196. Doesn't know who to vote.


#201. Votes for Blind Guardian.


General Comments: No names, no pack drill. The only living players she mentions at all are me and Mac. She suspects the latter, but in a non-committal way. I'd not like to guess, at this point, if it was wolf-on-wolf or not.

EDIT:X'd with Foley.