Mandos Thread: DEAD ONLY! - WW LXXXVI

[Shastanis Althreduin]

--Nogrod
++Manwe

At this point, given that Nogrod has voted himself, I'm pretty confident that he will, indeed, show up as innocent - which would mean cobbler or Seer (I'm obviously leaning heavily toward the former). Manwe, your role is completely unknown, and Fea has a point - would you mind just confirming for us that you're not a wolf?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

--Nogrod
++Manwe

At this point, given that Nogrod has voted himself, I'm pretty confident that he will, indeed, show up as innocent - which would mean cobbler or Seer (I'm obviously leaning heavily toward the former). Manwe, your role is completely unknown, and Fea has a point - would you mind just confirming for us that you're not a wolf?

Mänwe is an ordinary innocent. I told you. And he is.

Well Shasta, it's one step forwards you see I'm not a wolf.

Let's make the next step then?

Okay, got your info about your status with this thread. Too late for me to dive into the thread now to make any more specifics.

I hope I could answer your points from the post before this. But I can't. I totally missed that. I do remember seen some of the points you mentioned and recall thinking that the people are talking about something I don't understand what they are doing and it must be something not that important...

Had it not been 5am I might have seen that.

Anyway, I spent most of the time that last hour writing stupid jeremiads and hate it now. So I really just eyed them as I was more interested in the way the voting was going. Which I think you might understand.


I'm very sorry and apologise once again if I have hurt you. That was and is not my intenton. You know, it's not personal but game-related. But like you say: "dying early with a role tends to make me mad..." - and I think we both had reason to be mad about it, not only personally, but also because of the village.

I was more or less paranoid there in the end of D2 and you scorning me wasn't exactly helping...

I can prove it to you I'm the seer only when the game is over - and I do hope you understand my reactions to that lynch then (like you say you go mad when killed early with an important role).

Just think one more time: would I have acted like that if I was just a cobbler?

That would mean I would have been only maliciously bashing you with no reason, just for the fun of it? Surely you can't believe that?

I had a reason to be mad as I was the seer lynched and you were not believing it. Think about it fex. changing our roles for a moment. How would you have reacted if the roles were the other way around?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just think one more time: would I have acted like that if I was just a cobbler?

That would mean I would have been only maliciously bashing you with no reason, just for the fun of it? Surely you can't believe that?

Just thinking of it once more... wouldn't a cobbler me have acted differently?

What would a cobbler win by fighting a more or less known innocent?

I can answer that: nothing.

So ask yourself one more time: was I on top of my act and maliciously weaving a well thought out plot that included being agitated and annoyed with you, or whether the more believable explanation is that I was both frustrated as being the lynched seer too early in the game more or less making my role redundant and tired & off enough to be that cranky?

Which one?

Okay. All the best to you in the thread toMorrow. I'll keep my thumbs up for the village, even if the beginning has been horrible.

[Mänwe]

Quick comment- how was Fea able to create that tally of our posts within this thread?

[Rikae]

Nog, what do you mean by:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I was more or less paranoid there in the end of D2 and you scorning me wasn't exactly helping...

don't tell me, after all that song and dance, you were reading the dead thread yourself?

And Mänwe, if you click on the post count number to the right on the Mirth page, you'll get that list.

[Rikae]

My dear departed gentlemen and/or ladies, we now may count Feanor of the Peredhil as a member of our exclusive little club. Now she can see exactly who spazzed and in what ways...

Mänwe is not a wolf, whatever else he may be.

Shasta, you are alive from this point on and may no longer read post or post in this thread. Farewell, until we meet again...

The living:

Aganzir
Shasta
Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
Wilwa
Legate
Lommy
Nessa
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel

The dead:

Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Fea

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hello, dolls.

---

Written immediately following Deadline:

Mmkay, so at the time of Noggles's death, the Dead Thread post count is,

Shasta: 32
Manwe: 12
Rikae: 9
Mac: 1

At this point, the 'facts' that the village has are these:

Manwe was killed by the village and we do not know his role.

Shasta was killed by the wolves, and we can assume that he is therefore not a wolf.

Aganzir revealed as the Lover of Shasta. Since we will know very soon if she lied, this revelation was taken as FACT, because it would not help a wolf to make that bluff, it would not help a cobbler to make that bluff, and an ordo would not make that bluff.

Nog revealed as Seer and claimed to dream of Agan-Beren and Phantom-Cobbler.

Agan used her gender-bending feminine wiles to make Nog look exceptionally bad.

Therefore:

IF Agan is Not-Evil, which seems to be a foregone conclusion, THEN the village's decrying of Nog is accurate and we have killed either a cobbler or a wolf.

If Nog is a wolf, then it can be assumed that he was working under the auspices of the Pack, which currently contains either two or three members, one being Nog. If two, the third was Manwe and is already dead. If three, the others are unknown and are alive.

If Manwe was a wolf and Nog was a wolf, the two may now communicate via PM.

If Nog is a cobbler, he was working more or less alone (as in: he was unable to coordinate plans privately with others).

If Nog was working with a Pack, there would need to be a motive, such as to cast doubt on another player, or to cast good light on another player.

Because Dead Wolves may not communicate with Live Wolves, it is of no immediate benefit for a wolf to simply die.

There is a caveat to this: regardless of number of living wolves (either one left or two left), if it was judged to be of sufficient benefit to the remaining pack member/s for a Nog-wolf to die, then we can look at it thusly: the only person whose reputation is polished to a streak free shine from Nog's performance is the phantom.

However, I provide my opinion:

Nog is a cobbler, working to destabilize the village. He is not a wolf, and his behavior says nothing at all about the phantom's alignment.

--

As of 11:00pm EST toDay, this is the Dead Thread count.

Shasta: 44
Manwe: 14
Rikae: 13
Nog: 11
Mac: 2

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now here's the funny part:

I was going to post that since Shasta's post count rose by almost exactly the same number of posts that Nog gave, we could assume that they were bickering.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And so we have Not-Wolf Manwe, Ordo-Fea, and Probably-Cobbler Nog, and shortly we'll be rejoined by Luthien-Shasta and Beren-Agan, plus whomever is lynched.

Make good choices, village!

(Look, ModGods, I'm making good on that high post count per day rule! )

[Macalaure]

A rather uneventful Day came to an end in the timeless world of the dead. Anticipating this, the living decided to spice things up a little and add a whole bunch to the mix. I'm sure you will have plenty of things to talk about now.

The living:

Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
wilwarin538
Legate
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel


The dead:

Rikae (mod)
Macalaure (co-mod)
Mänwe (not a wolf)
Nogrod
Blind Guardian
Feanor of the Peredhil
Aganzir (Beren)
Shastanis Althreduin (Lúthien)
Thinlómien
Nessa Telrunya


It is now Night 4. You may choose which one of you shall be revealed as wolf or not. If your role allows you to do something else at Night, too... do so.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Okay. I'm reasonably certain the village was intentionally TRYING to make for confusion in the group communication. Oh, we don't know if we want them to figure out Nog or New Person. Oh, let's do New Person. Wait, I don't know. Oh, no, let's, I say let's do New Person! Okay, but if we do New Person, maybe we should stand on our heads and jump up and down using our eyebrows for balance? Oh, we've got this fairly figured out? Let's kill many people, and then complain when we can't figure out what coded message the Deads sent us!

Okay. Done complaining.

As somebody (probably Agan m'dear) said, in the case of a tie, we need to determine the role of the first person to receive the requisite vote count. That's Lommy. Ergo,

++LOMMY

[Nogrod]

Ask Shasta why you don't have solid info about my leaning...

But I think I know why he decided to go for Mänwe back then: he had voted for me and I had voted myself as well. It was quite clear I was okay with the check and of course he was not going ot believe me about Mänwe, at that point. Anyway, I'm ready to be checked anyday. But last Night would have been a lot better for it as we now got two new people here and we start falling behind easily.

So if we check Lommy with our votes to learn whether she's a wolf or not, I'll dream the exact role of Nessa then. I'll wait for few others to comment on you willing to pick exactly Lommy before PM'ing Rikae my dream just to avoid any fumbles, like us using both our methods on the same person - or if you for some reason decide to vote me to be checked, I'd probably wish to check Lommy then rather than Nessa (that's a gut reaction right now).

Okay. Back later.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

don't tell me, after all that song and dance, you were reading the dead thread yourself?

Heh... With Shasta scorning me I referred of course to our unnecessary and stupid bickering here then after my lynch. Actually I only read this thread through yesterDay (like I said on my post #75) as it was so late back then when I died.


Welcome to Mandos Fea.

Reading your first posts seem to indicate I really have some work to do to make things right...


And a quick look at the game thread makes me wish to hit my head to the desk. If people are going to think the phantom is a trustworthy ordo because of my failings I'm really going to lock myself into dark closet for the rest of my life...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Poor dear. I'll nuzzle you, but I probably won't trust you.

Just know that I love you tons even if I think you're full of fruit with a crumbly sweet topping.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Ang

Boro certainly seems to spend a lot of time watching the Tudors, for example. I mean, I like a ripped bodice myself, but...this doesn't necessarily mean guilt, I suppose, just that the great complexity of this game brings on a certain sense of detachment. Fea, too, was generally not as vocal as you might've expected.

1) It is a tendency of Bordo to thoroughly not care. I think it speaks to his innocence that he'd rather watch Ms. Boleyn bust out of her corset than try to invent facts he doesn't have. If you're evil, inventing is fun. Manipulation is lovely. If you're an ordo and don't know anything, the best you can do is show up once in a while and say something, and then go back to Henry and his tawdry affairs.

2) Oh come now, Ang, dear, I warned everyone in advance I was going to be fairly distant. I was busy, and now I appear to be sick. I thought I was doing a lovely job given the circumstances. Clearly the wolves agreed.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Okay, so here's the deal. I feel pretty icky today (I was hoping my feeling blah the past few days wouldn't legitimately turn into a sick version of me, but how much I'm coughing says no such luck) so I'm going to lay out how I think we should function so that I can run off and rest.

Nog, if you're actually the seer, your dream options are basically: me. We know Manwe isn't a wolf. We know Shasta and Agan's roles. You obviously know your own role. And you can't dream of the living. So that pretty much covers your theoretical seerly activities.

According to the Live Thread, they want to know Nog's role for certain (or as certain as it can get). I can understand that rationale. It makes the most sense right now to vote to learn Nog's alignment since we already know basically everyone else's (I'm an ordo). When Glorfy comes to visit, xe'll then have that piece of information to go back with.

As far as who should get the double vote, I lean toward giving it to one of our Lovers, just because we know their allegiance, so even if they go astray, we know it isn't because they're trying to mess with us. Shasta died too soon for us to really see him in action, but Agan has shown herself to be very rational, careful, and thoughtful. I submit that we should give her the double vote again. If that's allowed. I can't remember if that's allowed, and all I want to do is go find tea and pout that I don't feel good.

So somebody let me know if doubling Agan's vote again is okay?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Fea

So somebody let me know if doubling Agan's vote again is okay?

It's perfectly fine.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Mmkay. Then I think that's what we should do.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Nog, if you're actually the seer, your dream options are basically: me. We know Manwe isn't a wolf. We know Shasta and Agan's roles. You obviously know your own role. And you can't dream of the living. So that pretty much covers your theoretical seerly activities.

I need to remind you, we also know that Mänwe is an ordinary innocent. I dreamt that last Night and told about it. That is an exact role and it's fool-proof. I understand it that you're probably not willing to trust me yet. But I'll do my best to make you look at my role again. Hopefully when enough people see that what I say of their role is true you start to reconsider.

I promise 100% accuracy on my dreams. I will not err with them like a cobbler eventually would.

And yes, you're next.

Oops... unless the lynched one is more interesting... Oh, I have to get the hang of this. I think I can only dream during the Nights back there so the better focus to my dreams would be the lynched as we already know you're not a wolf.

Let's see if there will arise an occasion where that would call for turning that priority the otherway around.

According to the Live Thread, they want to know Nog's role for certain (or as certain as it can get). I can understand that rationale. It makes the most sense right now to vote to learn Nog's alignment since we already know basically everyone else's (I'm an ordo). When Glorfy comes to visit, xe'll then have that piece of information to go back with.

I suggested we voted for me yesterDay in here to find out my alignment - and actually voted myself. But Shasta turned his mind and retracted his vote from me into Mänwe and it was him we got (=not a wolf - while I already had the exact info of him being an ordo as well). He could have taken that info with him to the living thread but he decided not to. What a waste.

You should ask him when he comes back what on earth he was thinking... I mean if there was a chance he could be a cobbler as well while being a lover, then I'd bet my money on that.

As far as who should get the double vote, I lean toward giving it to one of our Lovers, just because we know their allegiance, so even if they go astray, we know it isn't because they're trying to mess with us. Shasta died too soon for us to really see him in action, but Agan has shown herself to be very rational, careful, and thoughtful. I submit that we should give her the double vote again.

I do agree with your premises... and with the conclusions as well.

I'm all for Agan getting the extra-vote.

++ Agan

for the extra-vote.


Sorry about being thus inactive toDay but there is a revolution unraveling in front of one's eyes where 80 million people turn the wheel of history... No offence to the most remarkable game we have on our hands, but that revolution is a tad more intreresting thing as it is changing this world as we know it in a big way (if all the Arab dictatorial regimes tumble down it is bigger than the collapsing of Communism 20 years ago), but I'll be back a bit later with hopefully some general ideas about the situation.


EDIT: Corrected a major fumble in logic: I think I only get to dream during the Nights and thus the lynchees are the obvios choices...

[Nogrod]

I just skimmed through the game thread.

I had some suspicions about Mith already earlier and now would probably vote for her if I was there (I'd most probably dream of her were I still alive).

I am a bit torn with Boro. I see your point Fea about his inactivity, but then again he has been quite inactive in the last few games... on first Days. He clearly has learned the lesson I understand only on a theoretical level: be quiet on first Days and you live, stand out and get killed. But there is something in him I don't feel is sincere; like he'd be purposefully picking targets.

There's not too many I tend to trust right now, but maybe Nerwen.



On another issue.

I'm quite at loss with how everyone seems to think it is self-evident that because I didn't answer Agan's "I'm Lúthien" it means I didn't know she is Beren and thus am a cobbler.

I did say earlier that she is Beren and never changed that. I just didn't pay attention to that trick by Agan, I somehow just missed it.

And had I been a cobbler, why on earth to say she is Beren risking it going wrong?

Actually, as a cobbler I should have probably quessed she was Lúthien - but I went to say comfortably that she is Beren (of course as I knew it).


And as Greenie speculated in the thread, I'm not that good an actor to pull out that frustration from a hat - which as a cobbler I wouldn't have felt in the first place.


Okay, I'm off to bed now. See you tomorrow - with new people in... sadly two too much.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++AGANZIR

for extra votes.

Because I keep finding myself zoning out about my dead responsibilities (I have a cold settling into my lungs and I get exhausted and cranky and occasionally illogical when I'm sick). So I want to get this vote in before Day ends. Not like it matters a ton if I vote now or if I vote at DL, but at least this way I can eat my chicken noodle soup and drink my tea and have a Buffy marathon without feeling negligent.

Do good, Agan!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

somebody were to post:

I am neither here, nor reading.

?

[Mänwe]

++Aganzir

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Do what Mith said! Notice that I post! Assume it means I care! Odds and evens is a way better plan than "second to last, times two, minus x to the third power"! Odds and evens!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey, you! Live people! Somebody remember Nog.

You wanted to find out Nog's role. If you want us to do that toNight, but you also want us to find out who you lynch toDay, then you have to give us really solid instructions, or Noggles will slip through the cracks.

Somebody remember Nog! SOMEBODY. Pwease?

i like instructions.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by phantom

Another thing about our Dead-plan... The dead vote to do checks at Night, so, I assume that they'll begin with whichever person we lynch today? If so, that means they won't check Nog, right?

Is that okay, since we are guessing Cobbler?

YOU READ MY MIND!

I KNEW I ALWAYS LOVED YOU!