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Old 04-03-2011, 08:54 AM   #14
Inziladun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
Another argument in favor of Orcs and Hobbits sharing a common ancestor might be the fact that Frodo and Sam were able to disguise themselves as Orcs......and get away with it .
It still doesn't make sense to me to say that Hobbits were used in the breeding of Orcs when Sauron himself seemed utterly clueless about Hobbits until he captured Gollum.

However, let's look at the issue about Frodo and Sam wearing the orc-clothes in Mordor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
Leaving aside the fact that they Sam has little or no difficulty in Cirith Ungol finding orkish garments that will fit Frodo and himself (which seems to indicate that hobbit sized orcs are fairly common).
The orc-clothes, save the helmets, were not an especially close fit for the hobbits.

Quote:
Over the tunic went a coat of stout ring-mail, short for a full-sized orc, too long for Frodo, and heavy....One [helmet] fitted Frodo well enough, a black cap with iron rim, and iron hoops covered with leather upon which the Evil Eye was painted in red above the beaklike nose-guard.
ROTK The Tower of Cirith Ungol

Sam remarks, after Frodo is fully dressed:

Quote:
'A perfect little orc, if I may make so bold--at least you would be, if we could cover your face with a mask, give you longer arms, and make you bow-legged. This will hide some of the tell-tales.' He put a large black cloak around Frodo's shoulders.
ROTK The Tower of Cirith Ungol

Sam then found an orc-helmet and black cloak for himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
Even factoring in the fact that the Orc that drove them back into the marching column was likey in a hurry (hereafter referred to as the OS (Orc Sargeant) as I don't remember if he had a name) and the possibility that he only saw them from the back, the fact that they were not immediately recongnized as not being orcs desite the fact they aren't wearing masks (Sam I think actually says that a mask might help frodo pass for an orc I think, which seems to indicate that orcish armor does not unusally come with face plates on the helmets or cloth covers worn on the face, or it would have been a non-issue) seems to indicate that orcs and hobbits are cursorarily similar in appearance, similar enough to fool an Orcish officer (who presumaby has a degree of perception somewhat higher than the rank an file orc as otherwise he would not likey be in a position of command, or at least would not stay there.
First off, it was pretty dark when Frodo and Sam were spotted, and as Sam noted, the light of the torches carried by the column had already passed them by. They had the black cloaks on, which would have hidden a great deal, and the "beaklike nose-guard would have had some concealing effect as well.
Also, the "OS" appears to have only really seen the shields carried by the hobbits:

Quote:
He took a step towards them, and even in the gloom he recognized the devices on their shields.
ROTK The Land of Shadow

That was probably the most common way an individual orc was categorized in such a regimented, militaristic society, and thus the first place the "OS" looked.

Speaking of the "OS", his position as the "motivator" doesn't speak for his having any exceptional intelligence or command ability. All he was doing was getting a group of orcs from Point A to Point B inside Mordor, not ordering them in battle.
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