WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Boromir88]

Nearly fully trust/would truly be surprised if they were Forgers...

Pitch
Mith

Feel trusty enough that I won't vote today...

Nerwen
Phantom

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Makes me skeptical...

sally
G55
McCaber
Inzil
Rikae

Could have put Rikae as creepy, but she always does, so it's no more creepy than normal. But, I shall be looking at the skeptical list and possibly get to the no ideas.

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

xed with Sally and Nerwen

[the phantom]

I was doing a bit of rereading and spotted this-

Originally Posted by Finduilas

...as I lay in bed tonight thinking about evil dwarves

Ha ha ha ha!

[satansaloser2005]

Now that Finduilas has admitted to having nasty dreams about Phantom, I think I'll go analyze him.

Also, oi. Boro, why did you vote me yesterDay? You make me sad.


ETA: Finduilas, that is, not Phantom. There's simply not enough time to tell all the things wrong with His Puddingness.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

Then I'll start with Inzil because, he's giving me sketchy vibes (or if you prefer just suspicious dwarvish majiks).

His joking vote for Galadriel started it. It was obviously a joke and not an actual vote since it wasn't highlighted. Kidding/joke suspicions is all in good fun, but it just looks weird to fake a vote as late as it was in the day.

Then followed by the back-and-forth with Bom in posts #93, 95 and 96. Concluding with Inzil casting 1st vote for tp (later retracted) but G55 and Bom quickly tacked on their votes.

Day 1 you can say I had a funky feeling, but didn't say anything because I wanted to observe him a bit more.

Then today

Originally Posted by Inzil

Let's see. I'm feeling pretty good about Eruhen, since she tied Bom with tp. Boro's vote might seem the least shiny of the Bom-voters, just because it came so late. Baddies have little to lose by putting another nail in a doomed mate's coffin, and everything to gain.

Call me biased, because it's about me, but I just don't like the look of that suspicion, without it really trying to look like a suspicion. I know Inzil's argument about wolf-on-wolf votes is a normal assumption to make, and I believe Inzil said at the beginning of the day he want to find something in the Bom votes.

Granted I didn't indicate I cross-posted, but I rarely ever take the time to edit in a "x-post" unless it's a massively long one. All one has to do is look at the time stamps and see my vote crossed with Inzil's and wilwa's therefor mine coming last in that group of 3 is inconsequential. Inzil pointing out my vote of all of them, being the "last one" and thus "least shiny" looks like a cheap boot-strapping suspicion attempt. (ergo, makes me suspicious of him).

[Boromir88]

And on sally...sorry my vote made you sad, but it's the quickest and easiest way I can take to try to figure you out.

That is put you under some pressure to get you talking instead of going through from day to day being an enigma.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And on sally...sorry my vote made you sad, but it's the quickest and easiest way I can take to try to figure you out.

That is put you under some pressure to get you talking instead of going through from day to day being an enigma.

Alas, it won't work this time, love. Today aside, I'm simply too busy.

[satansaloser2005]

Willing to vote:
Galadriel: Still reading her as Galwolfriel (and too lazy to make it a Forge term)
Mith: That post commenting on the Night still looks like a Mithillain
Pitch: More of a hunch, so he's probably my third choice
Rikae: What is up with that formatting?! (Not actually going to vote you, love. )

Will be cranky if they're killed:
Boro: Right now he looks innocent
Phantom: If he's evil, he needs to die immediately, but I want to keep him around for now


That's where I am right now. Well, that and about to leave Barnes and Noble.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Oh dear, how terribly confusing.

I think it would be rather unfun if the KD did stuff purposely to die. I don't think that the plan is fool-proof, though of course, any werewolf strategy usually isn't (that is, if werewolf is enough like Mafia for me to be able to say that). And also, Phantom suggested that the Sweetheart be a turncoat and do her best to get the fellow killed. That's just wrong... from a story point of view. As to whether it's logical game-wise, I'll think about it as I lay in bed tonight thinking about evil dwarves. Not that me thinking it logical changes anything... But it would still be wrong...

Agreed. Glad we've mostly settled all this.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Sorry for "playing the newbie" folks. I really have had more to say, I'm just keep writing it and not posting it until it is obsolete. That being said, I have 8 minutes till deadline, and guests in the living room... meaning, I don't have time to write another posts in argument.

++ Inziladun

Edit: thanks muchly Boro.

Tip: Even if what you've said has already been mentioned, you should still post it. Otherwise, you look like you don't have an opinion of your own, which can be even more troublesome for you.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Hm. I'm feeling terribly out of this game, I've been too quiet. Let's see if I can fix that.

Zil, my vote for you was a case of... indecision (with a smidgen of time pressure too). I wanted to vote for both TP and Bom, but I dislike killing people on the first day (sorry, always have, I'll show more backbone toDay), so I voted for someone who had no votes, and who had not particularly struck me as a definite innocent. So I haven't decided on you yet, but that's why I voted for you. Actually, considering your retraction vote from Phantom (who'm I currently think is "innocent", though most other players seem to have termed him as evil, Forge member or not...) to Bom, I think I might trust you...

So you voted Dun based on lack of trust, rather than suspicion? Interesting.

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Folwren said she would change the narration to not be from his point of view, so I'm thinking that it will be tolerably obvious to careful readers as to whether he dies. Though I kind of like the idea of the Forgers not knowing.

I have a problem with your logic here. If "careful readers" will notice, it's likely the Forge would be able to figure it out as well. After all, we weren't aligned based upon our intelligence. It just seems like a strange statement to me.

Originally Posted by Finduilas, to Boro

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

Why? Why do you trust Eruhen now? At the point at which Eruhen voted for Bom, yes, it tied him up with Phantom, but Phantom (or someone else) easily could have been lynched. And if we go with Phantom's idea of a more nefarious and mistrusting Forge, Eruhen could have been trying to lynch Bom and still be guilty.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I have a problem with your logic here. If "careful readers" will notice, it's likely the Forge would be able to figure it out as well. After all, we weren't aligned based upon our intelligence. It just seems like a strange statement to me.

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

I don't have much to go on at this point, but I would like to say that I don't think the case against G55 based on her vote yesterDay is a good one at all - if anything, it was a vote and an argument unlikely to come from an actual wolf. As for her defense of me, I don't think Pitch was making a case at that time and I kind of don't think she thought so either...

Does anyone else find a certain person's musings on literature to be - interesting? I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

[the phantom]

Pitch- your list. Can I ask, is everyone precisely where you feel they ought to be, or has one or more individuals been shifted slightly for the purpose of good strategic play?

Rikae- if you're speaking of what I have seen, then you are saying that it was meant to be misleading?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Since it's coming from me obviously it's going to be a defense, but I'm making the point that your "observation" (if that's how you want to down play it) was flawed because you just saw I was the last of the 3 votes in a cross-voting and determined that mine was the least shiny of all the Bom votes.

As you yourself noted, you didn't indicate an x/post, and I'll admit I didn't notice the time stamp. Take that as thou wilt.

x/d with tp

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this, as far as suspicions, but it looked to my like Finduilas was saying that only the ordinary villagers would pick up on it, which of course wouldn't be the case. Saying that the Forge wouldn't get it so she could express relief at their mishap just looked a bit staged.

And yes, I think Phantom has the right idea with the wolf-on-wolf theory. There's really no reason to protect one's packmates, because any of them could be out to kill you.



Leaving in ten, but I'll be back to vote. I'm still leaning toward Mith, Galadriel, and possibly Pitch. Try to dissuade me if you think it's in the village's best interest.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

Dwolves?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I don't have much to go on at this point, but I would like to say that I don't think the case against G55 based on her vote yesterDay is a good one at all - if anything, it was a vote and an argument unlikely to come from an actual wolf. As for her defense of me, I don't think Pitch was making a case at that time and I kind of don't think she thought so either...

It's not only her vote yesterDay and the last minute flurry, it's also her reactions yesterDay, her revenge-vote for me... it all adds up.
And she explicitely called it a case.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Does anyone else find a certain person's musings on literature to be - interesting? I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

Love you too.

EDIT: x-ed from #121 down

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

I don't have much to go on at this point, but I would like to say that I don't think the case against G55 based on her vote yesterDay is a good one at all - if anything, it was a vote and an argument unlikely to come from an actual wolf. As for her defense of me, I don't think Pitch was making a case at that time and I kind of don't think she thought so either...

Does anyone else find a certain person's musings on literature to be - interesting? I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

A few things about this post moves Rikae further up the "I could vote for today" list.

The first statement is just a flawed argument. Are you saying you suspect sally because she said exactly something you would say if you were a wolf?

2nd paragraph is an interesting defense for someone who seems will possibly be a lynch (G55). I say interesting because not many are willing to defend Galadriel right now, and then Rikae's conclusion that tp may be right about wolf-on-wolf voting looks like an attempt to divert attention elsewhere. Clever switch of strategy...? I mean if we're sitting here talking about the Forgers may be more likely to vote for themselve do to the presense of the KD, it's too easy for the Forge members to feed us exactly what we want/expect to see.

I suspect the Forge has to be careful not to get another one of theirs lynched today, or that would put the number at 2 + the King's Dwarf. It becomes very difficult for the Forge, knowing if they lose 1 more and it's not the KD, because in the 1 Forge + 1 KD situation, the Forge member would not be able to kill the KD at night. Is this making any sense, because I kind of just confused myself?

And that last cryptic suspicion...I mean yes, I believe we all see what you're referencing, but in that case, just come out with it. Say it's Pitch and state what you find suspicious about it.

[Pitchwife]

Back from walking the dogs. The Dwarven colour scale toDay, as of now:

White-Hot
(I bet you'd like to know)

Mithril
Eruhen
McCaber
Mith
tp

Iron
Boro
Zil
(too much at each other's throats for mithril)
Finduilas
sally

some darker ore
Ms Cubbies-Overlay

galvorn
G55
Nerwen

And there's really not much point in postponing it -
++G55

[Folwren]

Dismay and distrust was common through the dwarven village that day. Few dwarves felt they could trust any of their neighbors enough to believe anything said. This day, many of them spoke, and no one dwarf made any case noticeably louder than another. And yet, even without one dwarf pushing the thoughts and actions of the others, they seemed to move together, as though led by some unseen force.

How it started, no one quite knew, but it became evident that one dwarf woman had fallen under much distrust.

“It is not me! It cannot be me! It is him, I tell you,” Gal said, pointing towards the dwarf she suspected, “he’s not normal, I know him and he hasn’t been acting normal today! Why don’t you distrust him? Why do you distrust me?”

“A strange hunch, you know?” a dwarf replied with a shrug. “We haven’t much else to go on.”

“Brilliant. So you’ll help the Forges by knocking me off, will you? That won’t do the lot of you a bit of good. Look, it’s him, I know it is – and the loud one who spoke yesterday.” She craned her neck to look for the dwarf who had led most of the debate the previous day. “One of them, probably both of them, are the one’s you’re looking for.”

“We’ve had enough talk,” a dwarf growled. “Let us do away with her.” He moved threateningly towards her, and the crowd murmured their approval. They were becoming dangerous and violent.

“She is a woman, let us put her to death in a gentler way than Bom,” someone suggested.

“Gentler death? It all ends up the same doesn’t it?”

The dwarf ignored the protest, and stepped up to the condemned dwarf. “Will you submit to death, or must we bind you?”

“Take me,” she spat out. “I will not fight. I am not a coward. But stay – let us to the river and there I will take my own life.” She pushed through the mob and they parted before her and then followed as she went to the bridge that spanned the mighty river running down from the mountain. There she turned and climbed onto the stone wall. She faced the dwarves standing at the far end of it, and then she leapt, jumping to her death in the water and the stones below.

Later in the evening, her body was washed up on the shore some miles down from the village. A passing dwarf found her, and he looked, surprised. The sleeve of her shirt had been torn by the rocks and the current, and on her shoulder was a brand he only recognized from rumors he had heard, and it made him shiver, for he thought wrongly that the Valley Forge had found another victim.

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Eruhen
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf
Glirdan - Ordo
Gal55 - Member of the Valley Forge

[Folwren]

“One of us is a traitor.” The firelight glimmered on the dwarf’s face, reflecting in his dark eyes. He looked about the remaining company. They had dwindled to an appallingly small number in an appallingly short amount of time. “I want to know who it is!”

A silence met him. His two companions stared back at him grimly.

“We may have had a traitor, but what if he is dead now?” one asked.

“Is he really?” The dwarf moved dangerously about the table to the speaker. “I don’t think I’ll feel safe until I know that he is.”

“How will you know?”

“There’s only one test.” And as he spoke, he plunged his dagger in, driving it in till the hilts rested against his ribs.

“I trusted you,” the dying dwarf whispered. “It was part of your tests.”

“I trust everyone I swear in,” the dwarf replied, bending above him. “Until they betray me.” He drew back, pulling the blade with him. The warm blood flowed out and onto the floor, leaving a pool beneath the body.

“Let’s take him out to the streets so the others can see that even traitors in our own fellowship meet the same end.”

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Eruhen
Finduilas
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf
Glirdan - Ordo
Gal55 - Member of the Valley Forge
Rikae - Member of the Valley Forge

(For the record, I'd like to make note that I know Rikae's a she, but I didn't want to bother making it so in the narration. It's just so much simpler to have all the Forgers be "he's" in the story. Sorry, Rikae. Gal must've been special.)

[Inziladun]

Wow. They're dropping like flies.

So, at worst we have two Forgers left, and at best, we have one.

For the record, I doubt G55 was the KD. It's more likely to be Rikae, due to what she said after G55's self-vote.

[the phantom]

Ah yes, I think most of us expected something funny like that. Now I'm interested to see everyone's take on what happened (I have my own ideas, but that will have to wait- for the sake of being annoying and/or drama).

But of course I'd remind everyone to present your case in such a way that you aren't putting someone in the position of being modfired if they dare address the case you've laid out.

In other words, if you say "I think Saucepan Man is the KD, what do you have to say about that Saucepan Man?" then you're being dumb.