WW: LXXXVIII - Trouble in the Misty Mountains: Game Thread

[Boromir88]

Day 1

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

I am detecting a slight, slight wolvish vibe in the final paragraph of Legate's first post. I think any advantage of having a smaller field is outweighed by the sheer numerical fact that the smaller the village is, the closer the wolves are to winning.

I didn't understand TEW's point here, or at least I could not sense any of the slight wolvish vibes from Legate's first post. Legate bantered about the guide then tried prompting a question about wolf strategy in a low-number village. It looked rather standard Legate, which I imagine for werewolving he at least brings a brief case as he's always ready to get to business.

Originally Posted by Legate, #42

So, I at least know whom I am not going to vote. Also, upholding the ancient tradition, I won't vote for either of the newbies.

This was his list post where he didn't seem to have any strong suspects at the time. But it looks good in staying consistent with his trying to "lynch wisely." I'm sure people disagree with the strategy, but part of the battle on getting through Day 1 is figuring out who not to lynch. Eventually, got to get wolves, but the longer the gifteds can keep hidden, the better. Can't win or lose on Day 1, but it can be crippling if the seer is ousted or lynched.

In sum, figuring out who you don't want to lynch is good enough for Day 1, but eventually got to start getting serious suspects to send werewolves to the gibbets.

Originally Posted by Legate, #49

But I think I could vote Elf-warrior in the end - maybe also it could be used as a "warning vote", if nothing else, to underline my point: if you say that it is easier to make comments about people who haven't said much, yes, maybe, but that actually sounds like ignoring them (if you don't post anything about them, at least a sentence, or a yes/no note!). It is not such a big deal to make comments about people who have said a lot, it is more a problem to read their posts, isn't it? And I certainly hope you are trying to at least read everyone's posts, at least briefly.

Therefore,

++Elf-warrior

I agree with Inzil yesterday, that if this was a "warning" to Elf-warrior, a vote is a pretty strong one. Even with it being Day 1. And honestly, Legate, I have no clue what you were warning TEW about. Was it, generally, just, if you have the time, shape up? Or care to explain what you meant again?

Day 2

Don't agree with him that TEW was a no-trace kill, but his activity today and starting to stir around suspicions looks innocent enough.

I had thought his first post today looked like an attempt to steer us to believe TEW was killed as a no-trace, and possibly to frame him. Although, he only mentions it could frame Inzil, and not himself. I certainly can't see a wolf-Legate being bothered by "slight slight wolvish feelings" from TEW.

So, if I go with the wolves thought TEW was the seer, then Legate being a wolf doesn't really make sense. Why challenge him with a vote and risk the attention, or chance the Ranger catches on too? But, if the wolves thought TEW was the Ranger or Hunter, I wouldn't put it past Legate being a wolf trying to get some sign out of TEW. Although, for that to make sense, then TEW would have to of given Rangery or Huntery vibes.

Edit: crossed with sally.

Also, how do I fit into the same category as the two slabs of freshly-cut meat? Neither of them even voted. A no-trace kill by definition leaves no trace. Elf, Kath, and I left a trace, and thus are not in the same MLT as the newbies. Just sayin'.

Fairy nuff. I meant, like Greenie, Kath, and TEW your posting doesn't give much away. Though you are right, you would leave a trace, as TEW did. The trace though would be hard to follow correctly, hence similar to TEW, even if technically you're right.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In sum, figuring out who you don't want to lynch is good enough for Day 1, but eventually got to start getting serious suspects to send werewolves to the gibbets.

That wasn't my program, it was the summary of the post: looking at the list I just wrote and evaluating what I have learned. Looking at it, I realised I don't have any people screaming guilty at that point, but at least I knew who I did not want to vote, and then went on from there in my future thoughts up to the final decision several posts later.

I agree with Inzil yesterday, that if this was a "warning" to Elf-warrior, a vote is a pretty strong one. Even with it being Day 1. And honestly, Legate, I have no clue what you were warning TEW about. Was it, generally, just, if you have the time, shape up? Or care to explain what you meant again?

The warning was a "bonus". It was not the sole reason, of course, that would be silly - if you read what I was saying, you will see it - in fact, it was not a reason at all. What I said was: TEW is possibly the person about whom there is something I find unsettling, and that is the fact that he posts about random people and completely omits the "big" events. I don't have anything even as "good" about the others, so I am going to vote him. Even in case it does not lynch him, may it at least serve as a warning. Let this vote be a warning to you, TEW! Post something sensible, or I shall lynch you on basis of this! Something like that. It is the equivalent of the typical "lynch the quiet ones" thing. If you are innocent, you should post and not omit saying your opinions on important stuff. You are harming the village if you don't. If you are not innocent, then you fully deserved the vote.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am not saying the WWs are not looking for Gifteds, I am sure they are, but they probably don't know anything very specific about them (otherwise, they'd already be dead).

And anyway, let me say once again, in my opinion, at this point this debate does not have much of a sense for the village. The knowledge (or, in fact, theory) that the WWs thought TEW 1% more Gifted than the rest of us does not really help the village in anything. If there was somebody shouting "I'm the Seer, I'm the Seer" all day and then next night the WWs won't attack him, now that would have been suspicious. But if we have only some vague notions, it is not of any help.

Well, actually, it is a help in my head. Whatever the chances are the wolves thought TEW was a gifted, it would have been based on something he said. It makes a pretty big difference over he was killed for no-trace. Because if they thought he was, then from the wolves perspective he was saying something that was probably true about one of them. Could be in his vote for Inzil, if Inzil's a wolf, or his slightly wolvish vibe he got from you. But I can't see either you or Inzil being bothered much, by vague and slight suspicions if you were wolves.

The hindsight that he was an ordo, doesn't change the fact that if the wolves thought there was a chance he was gifted, he said something to make them think it. And thus there is probably more truth that can be found in what he said about people, than what you seem to want to make it.

Having said that, I admit to be focusing too much on TEW so far today, and there is the voting that also needs to be looked at more.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That wasn't my program, it was the summary of the post: looking at the list I just wrote and evaluating what I have learned. Looking at it, I realised I don't have any people screaming guilty at that point, but at least I knew who I did not want to vote, and then went on from there in my future thoughts up to the final decision several posts later.

That's essentially what I was trying to say. That you were being consistent in wanting to "lynch wisely," and that it is understandable for Day 1. In so far, as it's how I approach Day 1's too.

[satansaloser2005]

Incidentally, we have at least two players in danger of modfire toDay. This does not bode well. We need everyone to participate and vote, or the wolves will win without a fight.

That means you, new kids. You vote or you die. That is all.

*stern!Sally is stern*

I'm also proposing the radically stupid idea of, if the modfire candidates don't show up by Dusk, just killing one of them. It would be better to waste a lynch on an absent innocent than to have three die in one Day. I'm just putting this up for consideration; I'm hoping it won't be necessary.

[Kitanna]

*sneaking on for three minutes before her lunch ends*

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm also proposing the radically stupid idea of, if the modfire candidates don't show up by Dusk, just killing one of them. It would be better to waste a lynch on an absent innocent than to have three die in one Day. I'm just putting this up for consideration; I'm hoping it won't be necessary.

We run a lot of risk doing this. We may save ourselves too many innocent loses, but we also buy the wolves time as well. I'd rather not waste my vote on people who are in danger of modfire. I want to use my vote on someone I actually suspect. And if everyone says "well they're dead anyway" and votes like that we have no trail to follow on Day 3 where voting is concerned. It's easier to hide behind comments, but hiding behind votes is oh so much harder.

Had more to say, but I gotta run again. I just had to comment on this idea now though.

[satansaloser2005]

As Boro would say, fairy nuff. It's not a plan I'd want to put into action, but I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).

Besides, I see it benefiting us innocents more than the villains, at least from a numbers standpoint. From an evidence perspective, however, it's fairly useless. :/

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

As Boro would say, fairy nuff. It's not a plan I'd want to put into action, but I'd probably try it if I didn't like where the lynch was headed (e.g. someone I trusted was alone on the block).

Besides, I see it benefiting us innocents more than the villains, at least from a numbers standpoint. From an evidence perspective, however, it's fairly useless. :/

Greenie always gets annoyed if I bring this up with mod-fires. If it's just one person who may be modfired we vote to lynch. It extends the game by 1 phase. (Gives us another night, in which with the hunter/ranger still presumably alive would hopefully extend it more). But with 2 modfires, I don't think we gain the extra phase.

Worst case scenario, they're both innocent, and we lynch one of the mod-fires. That leaves 7 innocents, 3 wolves. And 2 days to get a wolf. And we essentially give up trying to lynch a wolf today.

Or, we lose the 2 mod-fires, they're both innocent, and we lynch another innocent. 6 innocents, 3 wolves. Still get 2 days to get a wolf. But we aren't giving up the lynch chance for a wolf.

Sorry, sally, with 2 mod-fires, there's no gain to be made by voting to lynch one of them. Better to use the chance today voting someone else and hope one of the 3 is a wolf.

Edit: crossed with Inzil

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anyway, I think we should move on from "why was TEW killed", since I think we have revealed as much as we could, to "whom are we going to lynch".

I concur. The Pitch votes (and yes, that includes mine) should naturally be our focus, I think.

Why did I vote for him? I said so here and here.

Kitanna's and G55;s x/d with mine. Over an hour later, Bom came in with his, and sealed Pitch's fate.

G55 has said hers was "out of spite". Since it led to his lynch, that would seem an especially questionable reason.

Kit's was better reasoned.

Bom's, by virtue of the timing, and the somewhat intense interactions between him and Pitch, might look the worst.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

We run a lot of risk doing this. We may save ourselves too many innocent loses, but we also buy the wolves time as well. I'd rather not waste my vote on people who are in danger of modfire. I want to use my vote on someone I actually suspect. And if everyone says "well they're dead anyway" and votes like that we have no trail to follow on Day 3 where voting is concerned. It's easier to hide behind comments, but hiding behind votes is oh so much harder.

Sensible!Kit is sensible, at least on this score. Lynching a likely modfire is not something I could get behind.