Hobbit2 - Chapter 02 - Roast Mutton

[Boromir88]

Excellent ideas to ponder and discuss for the CbC threads Bb! It is impossible to really tell what Jackson will cut, add, or alter but that doesn't make such discussions in relation to re-reading The Hobbit pointless.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

So, my question is, will the chapter "Roast Mutton" likely be found in the Hobbit movie or will it likely be excised? Are the trolls going to be exciting villains or will they be ignored like the very ghastly and enigmatic Barrow Wight was?

What's the meat of this chapter that will nourish the movie?

My response towards the movies has greatly fluctuated over the years. One thing that's been pretty consistant though is, I would prefer Jackson simply excising parts instead of trying to get creative and change it. I mean, if Jackson's not going to shoot a scene properly, I would prefer he just not shoot it at all.

It's the reason why I was fine with Bombadil and the Old Forest being skipped over. Even though if Jackson's explanation for it's lack of importance to the main ring-quest doesn't make sense (for the reasons you've pointed out), I think it was wisely handled in order to get the Hobbits from the Shire to Rivendell in a timely manner as far as movies are concerned. I know debating this point isn't pertinent to your question, but I hope using it as an example is...

I am ok with the Old Forest being removed, because I just don't trust Jackson's ability to capture the magic and greatness in that part of the book. It just meant there is one less thing that could have potentially frustrated (or disappointed) me in the films, had Jackson decided to include the Old Forest. There was no way he could have captured the same spirit of that part, and thus I'm glad (whatever his reasons were) he didn't make an attempt.

I'm afraid with Roast Mutton, it won't be the same. Even though I agree with your case this chapter has the same elements as Bombadil and the Barrow-wight, I doubt Jackson will cut it out. Why? It can be easily distorted into a fight sequence. I would prefer it to just be cut out from the films, if it's just going to become a fight scene, but for the very fact Jackson can turn it into one, I doubt it will be excised.

A shame really, since I loved the part in the FOTR movie when we got a glimpse of Ian Holm telling the story about the trolls to the hobbit children. Holm was so enthusiastic and the expressions/reactions of the kids were priceless. It was a minute, almost meaningless scene, but I loved it. Unfortunately, since it was referenced in the LOTR-film, I think fans will be expecting to now see the full "story" of Bilbo's encounter with the trolls. And my pessimistic self telling me, the "full story" will be a fight scene.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I like your take on a possible line of thinking for the discussion, Bb! In this particular case, however, I am very sure we will see the trolls in the movie(s) - after all, we already did! Remember the scene (extended edition FotR, iirc) where the stone trolls are depicted in the background? And as B88 says, we also had old Bilbo telling the story of that adventure to the kids.

Question is, will PJ have his more fearsome dwarves acting as simple/stupid as they do in the book? Will he use them as comical characters or give them a darker edge? We'll find out in seven months...

[Galadriel55]

Perhaps PJ will find that the story already has enough adventure, character/s, and other information, so he will decide to take out the hobbit - after all, what does he add to the story? Nothing much, really. Just like Tom Bombadil, he does a bit of this and a bit of that, but doesn't really affect the main plot or develop character. Roast Mutton can do well enough without him.



Edit: that was aimed at PJ, not at your speculations. (And I like your idea, Bb!)

[Bêthberry]

Yes, there are some troll references in the movie trilogy--are the extended editions the canonical version, or the theatrical release?--but what's a little lack of continuity to folks who put elves at Helm's Deep?

I think Boro's point about the chapter providing an opportunity for a fight sequence is, very sadly, quite likely it's selling point for PJ. The nonsense and light-hearted comedy (like that of Tom) could well be downplayed. The costumes of the dwarves in the snippets that have been released seem to me to be very dark. I had never imagined the dwarves all got up in black leather. Brown, yes, not not all black. (And miners don't get all leathered up while mining, as underground it is hot--at least the coal mines I have seen are, although weapon-making would likely require the protection of leather.) So I think Esty's question about their portrayal is significant. If the chapter stays, but its style and tone are changed . . . .

I'm glad folks like the idea of thinking how PJ will depict each chapter. I thought it was a way to provide a new approach for a repeat reading of TH. Will try to stay tuned!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

So you want PJ changes, eh? Well, how about the trolls pick
up the dwarves and toss them into bags, because, you see,
they're dwarves and it's so funny when you have a running gag
about "tossing" them.

And as for the talking purse...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I think Boro's point about the chapter providing an opportunity for a fight sequence is, very sadly, quite likely it's selling point for PJ. The nonsense and light-hearted comedy (like that of Tom) could well be downplayed. The costumes of the dwarves in the snippets that have been released seem to me to be very dark. I had never imagined the dwarves all got up in black leather. Brown, yes, not not all black.

Well then, if you really would like to hear my doom and gloom

I think overall The Hobbit movies will get darker in tone and atmosphere, but I'm sure there will be comedic parts as well. Problem being, Jackson's style of comedy which is usually crude and lewd. Therefor, the trolls will be depicted as a slower and dumber form of Ents (movie-Ents mind you) crossed with drinking games and belching contests.

Oh man, my expectations seem really low, hopefully it's just this chapter, though? Or maybe, if I set such low expectations I will actually be more glad about the enjoyable parts in the movies?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh man, my expectations seem really low, hopefully it's just this chapter, though? Or maybe, if I set such low expectations I will actually be more glad about the enjoyable parts in the movies?

Be prepared for the worst and never feel disappointed.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Careful, folks - we don't want this to turn into a thread that has to be moved to the Movies section of the forum! Please make sure the book stays the main focus of the dicussion - as Bb suggested, talk about those parts of the books that may get neglected onscreen.